Black fighters did not dominate every era. Leonard fought the best men of his era and did not make an exception for blacks. It makes me wonder when you try to be fair how many posters just can not believe it when a white guy dominates. Calzage fought all black guys(Lacy,Jones,B-Hop) in his last few years, Marciano fought 2 white guys out of 7 title fights, I guess Rocky avoided the white guys but naysayers will always have something to say
he, I'm too worn out to engage in political correctness with you. But please name me 'dozens" [as you put it] top of the line black lightweights that Benny Leonard AVOIDED in his championship reign from 1917-23 ? To accuse Leonard of ducking black legitimate contenders when he went out of his way to give the TOP black lightweight Leo Johnson a title shot the SAME year [1917] he won the title,and ONE week later gave another black contender Eddie Dorsey a title fight, koing both fighters in rd 1 and rd 2, well to accuse the decent Leonard of not fighting "dozens" of black lightweight contenders,smacks of racism on YOUR part he... I admire and respect you, but you are dead wrong on this issue...At that point in time Benny Leonard's very best opponents were WHITE, and he gave everyone a shot at his title...EVERYONE, including Leo Johnson and Eddie Dorsey who were black, BARRING no legitimate contending lightweight in his magnificient 7 year title reign... P.S. Why the heck do you have to bring up the old and tired bromide "Jack Dempsey avoided Harry Wills " ,in this discussion relative to Benny Leonard ? Do you want to go through this topic ad nauseum once again ? You know darn well that Dempsey and Wills DID sign for a bout with an out of town promoter, but the bout was cancelled as the promoter couldn't come up with the money...this is a FACT, but he, what the hell has it to do with Benny Leonard, avoiding a slew of legitimate black lightweight contenders as you falsely accuse ? Enough mud slinging. Give the great and decent Benny Leonard his just do,and not taint him with PC garbage that is NOT TRUE...Cheers...
Early in Nat Fleischers book "Lennard The Magnificent" he addresses exactly your post citing the Leo Johnson and Dorsey matches as per the Burtster a bit earlier. Bens only possible black duck MAY be Panama Joe Gans as Ben did fight many other great welters.
Hardly S, in the middle of Leonards reign panama Joe Gans was fighting at 157lbs against Young Fisher and othe MWs. Leonard fought every darn 135 pounder of note, ducking no one. He fought every viable contender in his weight class, and was the most respected fighter in all history. To imply that Leonard avoided any lightweight opponent is dead wrong. In all my years enmeshed in boxing I have never heard such garbage about Leonard before...We should let Bennah rest in peace,after his great and distinguished career in and out of the ring...Take care...
not dissing ben burt i worded my post carefully please re read "panny" was at 147 or less all through his prime box rec is often box drec as far as weights
I've no wish to reopen hostilities with you H.E, but I think it really is incumbent on you to produce these black lightweights that Leonard supposedly ducked. It was a pertinent question you asked, I hadn't given it a thought what black fighters Leonard met, but lets face it,he beat the best coterie of lightweights any champ ever faced.
S, Yes PJG was about 154 when he fought Young Fisher [A BULL} in 1920, and Gans was a WW prior to that. But why in heaven would Benny Leonard go 12 pounds beyond his weight to fight a WW, when he had the greatest array of lightweight contenders, who rightfully deserved title shots from the ever willing Benny Leonard.? Who would think of such a match during Leonard's reign. ? S, you and I are on the same page i think, so I responded to a question asking "Did Leonard ever fight a black fighter "? I, knew the answer because my dad was a devotee of Leonard,and told me about Leo Johnson mussing up Leonard's hair,and Eddie Dorsey being kod by Benny soon after he won the title from Johnny Kilbane by ko in 1917...So i responded to the thread by giving my answer...Then the PC boys got to work, digging for some Viable black LIGHTWEIGHT CONTENDERS, that Benny Leonard AVOIDED... Answer....NONE...Cheers. P.S. I recall the morning in 1947 when my dad read the papers that Leonard, died in the ring refereeing a boxing match at St Nicks Arena.. My dad [a tough guy] wept...
There was never a time in pannys career when he couldn't make 47 Burt. Alls im saying is, If Ben faced other great welters, Britton, Lewis, super tuff Soldier Bartfield I'd love to have seen him with Gans too. If you want to stir up the turd on Ben, The entity once know as Big Fights Inc Cus DaMato, arguably this highest level of all boxing IQs, Jim Jacobs, Bill Cayton. The last survivor of BFI is messers Steve Lott. I know Steve. The things he has to say about Benny would break your heart!! Sez Duran, Ike Williams, Carlos Ortiz would beat Ben. Furthermore, Steve basically repeated what Cus said so the evidence is strong Cus said it! Remember Cus said Jack Johnson was a 6 round prelim fighter. ps burt im only the messenger im only the messenger im only the....
S, so what ? There are also some people that say that the world is flat instead of a globe. To imply that Cus was right about Leonard, is to deny the other 99% who have have him as No 1, were WRONG. Personally I'll stick with the vast majority. P.S. that makes his great victims [who your esteemed experts never saw], Johnny Kilbane, Freddie Welsh, Charlie White, Richie Mitchell, Lew Tendler, Johnny Dundee,Ever Hammer,Joe Welling , Ted Kid Lewis, Jack Britton, all somehow second rate fighters, as well as Lou Stillman, Ray Arcel, Mannie Seamon, Nat Fleischer,all who revered Benny Leonard's greatness to the day they died,and ALL who saw him RINGSIDE. not in two remaining clips with a tough, tough southpaw, Lew Tendler...:good P.P.S. Someday in the near future, some esteemed expert,will say the same things about Ray Robinson, upon seeing a film of Robinson, of him fighting Tiger Jones or Joey Archer...
I've read some of the newspaper archives of the black press of those times (Pittsburgh Courier, Baltimore Afro-American, Chicago Defender, etc). The writers were relentless in hounding the white fighters who avoided black challengers. For example, Jack Dempsey was the target of a lot of the wrath of the Pittsburgh Courier scribes. Thus far I have yet to find anything negative written in their pages regarding Benny Leonard avoiding black challengers. If that was his practice then believe me, they would have laid into him for it. Nobody was spared.
