Did Champion Joe Louis Avoid Maxie Rosenbloom ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Dec 31, 2022.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Louis won the title from Jim Braddock on the 22nd June 1937, Rosenbloom had his last fight on 26th June 1939 which gives him a window of 2 years in which Louis could have defended against him,
    The question is did Rosenbloom merit a title shot in those 2 years?
    Rosenbloom's record against noted fighters during Louis' reign .
    1937
    King Levinsky 73-29-8 W10 Levinsky unranked by Ring
    Roscoe Toles 16-4-1 W10 Toles was ranked at the end of 37 and may have been ranked when Rosenbloom beat him.
    Alberto Lovell 11-1-0 L 10 Lovell unranked
    Lee Ramage 48-11-6 W10 Ramage unranked
    Jimmy Adamick 42-2-1 W 10 Adamick was ranked at the end of the year, so may have been ranked
    Jimmy Adamick LKo2
    1938
    Lou Nova 16-0-4 W10. Nova ranked no7* Louis ko'd Nova in 1941 in a title defence
    Bob Pastor 30-3-3 Draw . Pastor ranked no 8* Louis had outpointed Pastor in 1937 and would ko him in 11 rds in 1939 in a title defence.

    1939
    Al Ettore W ko3 Ettore took a dive had has his licence taken away.
    Rosenbloom had a total of17 fights during Louis' tenure winning 13 ,1 of which was a fake.
    He had 2 losses and 1 draw.

    Rosenbloom has 274 fights with only 19 kos and 1 of them was a fake, so I doubt Louis would have been scared of Maxie's power!
    So did Louis avoid Rosenbloom? If so why?
    In1937 Louis defended against the number 2 man Farr.
    In 1938 Louis defended against Harry Thomas unranked, Natie Mann no 3 ranked, Max Schmeling ranked no 1
    In1939 Louis defended against Light heavyweight champ John Henry Lewis who had beaten Jimmy Adamick, Rosenbloom's conqueror 4 months earlier and ko'd Elmer Ray 8 months earlier. Louis defended against unranked Bob Roper and number 1 contender Tony Galento. Does Louis have a case to answer here?
    Yes?

    No?
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2022
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He would have been a good challenger in 37/38. Louis mostly fought guys ranked above him in that time-frame though.

    Basically, it's impossible to duck or avoid your number 5, 6 contender. That guy hasn't made a case, unless he's made a case with money. Even then, if you get a record offer from your number 5, how are you ducking him if you fight the number 3 instead?

    There is no case to answer for Louis here, but Rosenbloom would have been a good title defence.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    He would have been a good challenger, but he hadn't really done enough to force the issue.
     
  4. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No. It's possible you could cite a more undeserving challenger during Louis's reign (there was always going to be some amongst 26 defences), but Rosenbloom didnt do anything leading up to and during Louis's reign to make him a no. 1 contender by my eye.

    From the start of 1936 until he retired, Rosenbloom went 14-2-1. He has decent wins over a green Lou Nova, King Levinsky and Lee Ramage (who beat him in 34), a respectable draw with Bob Pastor and losses to Jimmy Adamick (avenged) and Alberto Lovell.

    Defeats to Adamick and Lovell don't mark him out as the no. 1 contender to the HW crown. Rosenbloom lost a lot during his career, and whilst I accept he fought a lot and has some great wins, he lost plenty to fighters that would have been unlikely to make it past 3 rounds with the early champ version of Louis.
     
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  5. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Just look how many interesting fights were made just for Maxie in three years…what the heck happened to the sport? I agree with McGrains breakdown. Can’t really “duck” a number 5
     
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  6. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Rosenbloom was never rated at heavyweight by the NBA.

    We are criticizing a champion who defended more than anyone, 25 times in 8 active years, for not fighting a fighter not ranked at all in his division by the major boxing organization of the time?
     
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  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    We.ie you and I aren't criticizing Louis,and your argument is irrefutable.
     
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  8. PRW94

    PRW94 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Sitting here thinking about it … I am probably an outlier but I can’t imagine Louis vs. Rosenbloom being an entertaining fight to watch. I think Joe would’ve been all over him and shredded him quickly, regardless of how few times he was knocked out otherwise, because Maxie didn’t have the firepower to keep Joe off him or make Joe respect him.
     
  9. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If that view makes you an outlier, I'm right there with you.
     
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  10. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You are not alone as an outlier. In fact, it is very possible if there is anything to the quote about Louis worrying about Rosenbloom making him look bad, that what Louis meant is that he would look bad knocking out an older guy who never had a punch and was now getting too heavy to keep moving as he had earlier, and who also displayed a very likable personality in the movies and on radio.
     
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  11. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    Moreso his team rather than Louis himself. They knew Louis had the tools to beat Maxie, but they were afraid at how bad he would look doing it. Maxie had a habit of making great fighters look terrible.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The classic "no win situation".
     
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  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The point should be made that if Louis had fought and defeated Rosenbloom, many of his supporters would have held it up as a good win on his part.

    Louis fans sometimes like to quote the statistic that he defeated eight lineal champions, and Rosenbloom would have made it nine.

    So it would have been a good fight, but certainly not one that Louis should have been under any pressure to take.
     
  14. Levook

    Levook Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Would've added a bit to Louis' legacy if he beat Rosenbloom impressively, but really, how much more legacy does the man need? He's almost unanimously #1 or #2 HW all time, and in the top 10 of many P4P lists I've seen over the years.

    Doesn't get much better than that!
     
  15. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 MONZON VS HAGLER 2025 Full Member

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    The best outcome of it is for us, we’d at least have film of Slapsie.