Did Champion Joe Louis Avoid Maxie Rosenbloom ?

And I pointed out that the NBA banned raking Rosenbloom. Did you see that point? I have no idea what David Haye is doing in the thread.

 

I scored the fight 9-0-1 for Louis. Pastor fought better in the 10th, and did land one right, and perhaps a second.

"his head movement non-existent"

Why should he move his head when no punches are being thrown at him?

"The 179 pound Pastor easily pushed Louis around when they clinched."

????

I did not observe Pastor doing anything on the inside the whole fight. Louis tended to retreat to get punching room. Louis was not a mauler type who wanted to fight on the inside. He sought punching room.

"His guard is too low."

But higher than either Dempsey or Tunney. Hard to call it too low when he wasn't getting hit by anything but now and then jabs which didn't seem very hard.

"Pastor when he opened up scores easily."

I could be flippant and point out that Pastor never opened up. The bottom line is I didn't see Pastor land anything but jabs, or even throw anything but a jab now and then, until the 10th, when he did throw a couple of rights, which I gave points credit for, but which might not have landed cleanly and certainly didn't bother Louis. My guess is Louis came out of this fight unmarked.

Pastor did open up in that corner exchange in one of the mid-rounds, but the slow motion showed Louis won the exchange.

You see this fight as a tortoise and a rabbit. I see it more as a bear and a rabbit. The only way the rabbit can survive is by running, but there is no hope of actually winning a fight against the bear.

Bottom line--Pastor should have been DQ'd for running. As is, he ran and ran, and scored now and then with jabs, but Louis out jabbed him, and landed all the heavy leather, such as it was. I can't recall Pastor landing a left hook. He threw a right and missed badly in one of the mid-rounds, but appeared to land a couple in the 10th.

"The crowd booed the decision"

They definitely booed the fight. That most thought Pastor deserved the decision is unsupported supposition. If they did, they were wrong. I am certain most were disappointed after buying a ticket to a fight and ending up watching a marathon.

"179 lbs"

Heavier than Corbett against Sullivan, Fitz against Jeff, Burns and Ketchell against Johnson, Carpentier and Gibbons against Dempsey, and the same weight as Matthews against Marciano.

 

"Pastor looks happy with the performance"

Were objective observers happy with his performance?

"the crowd boos the decision"

The crowd booed, but it is supposition they were booing the decision rather than a very disappointing fight, for which the always running Pastor must take the blame.

After this film made the rounds, I find it hard to believe any promoter would push for a fight with Rosenbloom on the basis that Maxie had a style similar to the one shown by Pastor.

A few more fights like this one could kill boxing even when it was wildly popular.

 

"Did you see that point?"

And what is the point of the point? Rosenbloom was not a rated heavyweight by the boxing organization which would have to authorize the fight.

 

Not really. I doubt Louis was scared of Maxie as well, but Maxie made the best fighters look terrible. From a promoter's perspective, Rosenbloom is a nightmare.

 

What does that matter? He wasnt a ranked contender to Louis's title. It's not reasonable to expect Louis's handlers to think "yes Rosenbloom isnt ranked, but that's only on a technicality, and despite his losing to multiple fighters inferior to HWs Louis has already beaten, some guy 85 years from now may claim we ducked him". There were plenty of other boxers not ranked, Louis couldnt have fought them all.

Haye is in this thread to demonstrate to you, that if you're going to claim a ducking as obscure, unfounded and frankly ridiculous, as Louis with Rosenbloom, then it is possible to make a better case for ducking by literally every other champion in history. Haye called out Vitali and was regarded as the best HW in the world Vitali could have fought at one time, given he couldnt fight himself or his brother. There is clearly a better case for Vitali ducking him than Louis ducking Rosenbloom.

 

I’m hesitant to potentially cause a ruckus given I’m still kind of a newbie here, but I have to call things as I see them to have credibility … all this seems more like an effort to denigrate Louis (full disclosure, my own
.02 is that peak Louis was the greatest heavyweight prize fighter ever born of a woman) rather than to boost Rosenbloom.

 

I think that's perceptive of you.
Louis is my #1 at HW too, though I accept the majority have Ali there, which I could see, too.

 

"It is possible to make a better case for ducking by literally every other champion in history."

This is the bottom line point. Louis as a contender, and only 23 when he got a shot at the title, had fought 4 former world heavyweight champions, KO'ing three, apparently 9 men ranked at the time he fought them, and at least 14 who had been ranked. This is a very outstanding record for a mere contender. As champion he defended the title more than anyone.

Of all the names tossed around on this and other threads, only Elmer Ray had that strong a case for a fight, and even Ray did not have the case Walcott had and Walcott got the shot.

There is an old saying that the perfect is the enemy of the good. We are seeing here that the perfect can be even more the enemy of greatness. Louis was arguably the most outstanding contender in history. Some have been undefeated, but none, at least at such a young age, had beaten so many good men. And only Ali has much of an argument for beating so many top men over such a long period, and no one defended the title as much.

Anyone can be criticized against perfection, but the only fair comparison is against what his peers did. Jeff. Johnson. Dempsey. Tunney. Marciano. Liston. Ali. Frazier. Foreman. Holmes. Holyfield. Lewis. Wlad and Vitali.

On that basis, Louis looks very good indeed.

 

Excellent post

 

Yes, I see and pointed out the NBA didn't like Roosenbloom. Despite this no one in saying Rooenblooom wasn't qualified. Based on the Pastor fight, perhaps losing in the decison vs. Godoy and Conn in the lead after 12, picking Louis via KO if this potential match up is a reach. I'd like to have seen it, wouldn't you? Or does being a Louis fan give you sour grapes on this thread, which I did not start?

 

No one is coming across as having sour grapes, nor does anyone have anything to have sour grapes about.

Multiple posters have given various valid reasons why your suggesting Louis ducked Rosenbloom and/or that Louis would be anything other than heavily favoured to not just beat Rosenbloom, but beat in 1 sided fashion, is unfounded and frankly ridiculous. That's all.

 

Slapsie Maxie, lol

 

Mendoza seems to have the problem that once he takes a position, he can't just back away and agree it is not as strong a point as he at first thought. He is not unique. Quite common, I suppose.

However, he has posted his top ten heavyweights and this is it:

1--Muhammad Ali
2--Larry Holmes
3--Lennox Lewis
4--Joe Louis
5--George Foreman
6--Wlad Klitschko
7--Jim Jeffries
8--Rocky Marciano
9--Evander Holyfield
10-Vitali Klitschko

Rating Joe Louis #4 is perhaps a bit lower than many, but it is certainly not off-the-wall to rate the three men ahead of him where they are rated, and certainly this top ten does not show or prove anti-Louis bias or any other bias.