Did Charley Burley deserve a title shot?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Aug 11, 2018.



  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I hate to be the sole naysayer here, but you have to ask the following questions:

    Who should have given him a title shot?

    When is the time frame when they should have given it to him?

    Why were they not within their discretion to fight other opponents?

    Just establishing that he was a very good fighter is not enough.
     
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  2. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Thanku...always a pleasure..I greatly admire and value your insight and knowledge. Not to mention your writing skills
     
  3. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The answer is "yes", of course, since Burley was definitely as- and probably more-worthy of challenging for a title than anyone who fought for championships in both welterweight and middleweight. But,,he occasionally dropped fights that he probably shouldn't have (Bivens, Williams back in '39), and had a rough stretch where he dropped a couple to Charles in '42.

    By the time he went on a consistent run, WWII was taking place and Zale and Graziano were spitting a pair of wars. Then he dropped a decision to Burt Lytell and that was enough for him to be removed from the rankings altogether.

    He was avoided for sure, but dropping the fights that he did when he did didn't help his cause in terms of getting a crack at a championship.
     
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  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Was he more worthy than many others who received title shots? Without a doubt. Was he ever, or deserved to be, the nr. 1 challenger (when the title wasn't frozen)? Less sure about that.
     
  5. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    As far as I can see, 1938-39 (before he lost to Holman Williams in late 1939) was the years when Burley had the best claim for a title shot (for the WW title). He only had 1 loss, which he avenged, and a win over Cocoa Kid plus back to back wins over Zivic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
  6. The Funny Man 7

    The Funny Man 7 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Is this a serious question?

    In my opinion Burley is the greatest fighter to never fight for a title. I consider him better than Sam Langford even, although that opinion won't win me many friends on this website.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Always remember the three Ws when saying that a fighter should have got a title shot:

    1.Who?
    2. When?
    3. Why?
     
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    So team Zivic didn't buy out Burley's contract in order not to defend against a guy that had already whupped him twice?
     
  9. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That period also seems the most clear cut to me.

    At MW he had his best years when the title was frozen and then lost to fellow contender Holman Williams just when it was to become "unfrozen" again. Not that he would have gotten a shot even had he won.
     
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  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Of course he did. The belts being frozen didn't help but he is one of the most deserving contenders to not get a title shot.
     
  11. Chuck1052

    Chuck1052 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Charley Burley was not much of a gate attraction, which did much to hamper his ability to get title shots and lucrative bouts. On pure ability and accomplishments, he certainly deserve a title shot, but professional boxing is a business.

    - Chuck Johnston
     
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  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Zivic.
     
  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And Armstrong.
     
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  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    You agree with me. Good to hear
     
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  15. Chuck1052

    Chuck1052 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    There are a number of reasons that were listed for Charley Burley's failure to get a world title shot or lucrative bouts. They are as follows:

    1. Race- I believe that this reason is mostly bogus. During the time that Burley was active, there were a number of black fighters who were world champions or were getting lucrative bouts, including Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Henry Armstrong, Sugar Ray Robinson, Ike Williams, Bob Montgomery and Willie Joyce. Those fighters generally were fine gate attractions. They usually became fine gate attractions by being exciting fighters or having a colorful personalities. Burley had a rather boring boxing style and certainly didn't have a colorful personality.

    2. Burley's Boxing Style- As noted before, it was considered boring, resulting in too many of Burley's bouts being considered "stinkers." That fact definitely was one of the biggest reasons for Burley not getting a world title shot or lucrative bouts, probably the biggest reason. As a result, promoters and matchmakers were not exactly going out of their way to have Burley fight on their boxing shows. Managers of fighters generally wanted their charges in exciting bouts, which was not likely to happen if the opposing fighter was going to be Burley.

    3. The Lack of Good Management- It is very possible that Burley didn't have the best or even good management. But he did have managers who worked very hard for him or were experienced boxing men. Both Phil Goldstein and Tommy O'Loughlin worked very hard for Burley with O'Loughlin also being a very experienced boxing man. Luke Carney may have not worked that hard while managing Burley for a brief time, but he certainly was an experienced boxing man and had a lot of success managing Fritzie Zivic. Some managers probably steered clear of Burley because managing him proved to be a very difficult and unlucrative.

    Another thing to consider is that Pittsburgh, Burley's hometown, was a terrific fight town at the time that Burley was active. But Pittsburgh never embraced Burley. Race probably wasn't the main factor for it. After all, Pittsburgh embraced black fighters such as Ezzard Charles, Harry Bobo, Sugar Ray Robinson, John Henry Lewis, Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard, Ossie Harris and Mose Brown while Burley was active.

    - Chuck Johnston
     
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