Did Cus cheat Liston out of a higher all-time ranking?

To piggy back off this question I notice after losing to Ali elite fighters mostly avoided him. Usually after losing the belt ex champs get big fights but Liston really didn't.

 

I am 50-50 on Frazier beating him in 68. My guess is Futch wouldn’t risk it. Futch wanted to avoid Foreman but Joe didn’t listen. My guess is a younger Frazier without the FOTC win and confidence of being undisputed champion wouldn’t have the same leverage on Eddie. IMO Futch would not let Joe fight Liston until 1970.

I believe Futch said Frazier was too green for Ali in 1967 before Ali was suspended. So he was a smart man who knew which matches to avoid or delay.

 

Somewhat similar to what happened to Witherspoon in la the 80s and early 90s. Of course Sonny was a lot scarier than Tim but notice that neither Holyfield nor Bowe nor a young Lewis nor a comeback Foreman were matched with Withersooon circa 88-92. Too high risk and low reward.

 

From what I understand, Liston was black balled and avoided by many management teams since they were under the impression he either took dives or quit against Ali and saw him as a marketing liability. That's why he was having those random fights in Europe against guys like Zech and Johnson.

Not sure what you mean about elite fighters avoiding Ali after losing. Quarry was on camera campaigning for a third fight. Frazier and Norton had their trilogies. Foreman had been demanding a fight for years and called out Ali multiple times.

 

I believe he was referring to Liston who was being avoided by elite fighters following his losses to Ali.

 

I meant avoiding Liston.

 

I agree that Futch probably doesn’t want a fight with Liston in 1968, but if the title is at stake, how long can you afford to wait & hope someone else does your dirty work?

If the fight did happen I’d confidently pick Frazier. Too much energy in one corner & not enough in the other by 1968.

 

Nice one dmt.

 

After quitting a second time, he had little name value left but was still dangerous. Just a bad equation.

 

Cus?....I would think that QUITTING while you're sitting on your stool ...as the CHAMPION...would knock you down a few pegs! As writer Robert Lypsyte said..."As Heavyweight Champion...you die trying...Liston didn't do that...he just sat there!" Lack of heart....that did it...not Cus...

 

Open question: Just prior to Johansson beating Machen, where were Ingo and Liston placed in the rankings? Thanks.

 

His ranking would have been the same. Liston killed all the contenders then he became the champion and then knocked out Patterson in the rematch.
He cleared out the divsion before it became champion, which in my opinion is the reverse of how people do it normally but still good. He still is ranked high,but did Cus damage his all-time ranking?

Liston's greatness ranking I don't think was damaged due to Cus, It was due to a skinny loud mouth that got in his way

 

This was one of the rare occasions when the Ring and NBA ratings were in full agreement. At the start of September 1958 they both had Machen at #2, Johansson #6 and Liston #9.

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