Did Dempsey double-cross Fulton?

mcvey · May 16, 2016

dempsey1234 said: ↑

Many alts I know you probably read this so don't read it again, this is about Carl Morris written by Mike Casey, entitled Jack Dempsey: The Sudden Rush Of Greatness'.

This part deals with Carl Morris:

The Carl Morris thing

After blitzing Gunboat Smith in their second match at Buffalo, Jack Dempsey held court in his hotel to a small and select group of journalists. The heir apparent to the throne wanted to put the record straight on the one man who got under his skin more than any other: big Carl Morris from Kentucky. Try as he did, Dempsey could never warm to Morris. There was friction between the two men whenever they crossed paths, right from the days when Jack was Carls sparring partner.

Morris had a condescending manner about him and a caustic sense of humour to match. Every time he opened his mouth, Dempsey bridled. Now Jack had finally shut him up. Just two weeks before despatching Gunboat Smith, Dempsey had conceded 35lbs to crush Morris in one round at New Orleans. Finally, a ghost had been laid to rest.

Jack had already posted two wins over Carl, outpointing the giant at San Francisco and winning by disqualification in their second meeting in Buffalo. But neither result was good enough for the size-obsessed experts of the age, who refused to believe that a David could whip a Goliath and then rubbished the evidence when it was presented.

Morris paid a visit to Dempseys dressing room before their second fight. It was a bad mistake. Tense and irritable, Jack roared, Get outta here, you cheap *******, or Ill flatten you right now!

Dempsey didnt get his chance that night. Morris, sensing a lost cause, got himself thrown out in the sixth round after winging one south of the border and re-arranging Jacks wedding tackle. But Jack surely did flatten Carl in the final instalment of their ill-tempered trilogy.

Here is what Dempsey told those few reporters on the final day of 1918: Going down to New Orleans, I had two days time to think things over. I boxed Morris in Buffalo and knew his style pretty well. But I realised he was tough. I made up my mind not to take unnecessary chances as the New Orleans fight was booked for 20 rounds. I figured it out that Morris would want to stick the limit and that hed play a defensive game and make me carry the fight to him that he would wrestle in the clinches and make me carry his weight and try to get me tired. Its no cinch, you know, to lug a big guy like him around for six or eight rounds.

Going down on the train, I doped it out this way: Id let Morris set the pace, nailing him when he left openings but never going in and mixing with him. What I planned to do was outbox him and wait for a chance to sink the ship.

When the referee calls us to the centre of the ring, Morris was so polite I became suspicious. It was Jack this and Jack that. He Jacked me to death. When we get our instructions from the referee and are going back to our corners for the first bell, Morris yells out so everybody could hear him, Make this a clean fight, Jack, no rough stuff.

Out we come, Morris laughing and leading with his left. It fell short. I tapped him with a left on the nose. He keeps on laughing. He swings his right. I duck and he grabs me. Right off the reel he starts the rough stuff The moment he got hold of me, what does he do but rush me across the ring and slam me into the ropes, throwing all his weight on me and rubbing my back ten or fifteen feet along the top rope You know what that does, dont you? Just burns your back, thats all. And theres the guy who says make it a clean fight.

The referee was wise and cautioned Morris. Morris excused himself and we break. I hooked him with a left to the chin. He was hurt. He lost his noodle, I guess, for he rushes in and grabs me again, though I tried to pull away from him. He got a good hold, like Zbyszko (the wrestler) and slams me into one of the corners.

He puts one of his ham-like hands against my forehead and deliberately tried to jam my head back over the ropes so my skull would hit the iron post. Trying to knock me out that way. Bum stuff.

The referee rushes in, yelling at Morris to quit trying to foul. I yelled at the referee to let him go. Ill take care of him, says I as we break away. I lost all regard for Morris. I tore loose, driving a left to the pit of his stomach with every ounce of strength I had, and as he doubled up and begins to sink to the floor, I whipped my right to his chin and he went down like a log. Both his feet were up in the air. The referee counted ten and it was a long, generous count too.

I dont think I ever hit a man as hard as I belted Morris in the stomach. Say, that referee could have counted a hundred. Morris didnt move. His seconds dragged him to his corner.

I went over to shake his hand, willing to let bygones be bygones, but I got an awful shock. Morris was as white as milk and as limp as a rag. His lips were purple. On the square, I thought he was done for. I was never so frightened in my life. You know, I dont want to hurt no man. I turned in and helped his seconds revive him. We worked over him for four minutes before he opened his eyes. I was a happy lad when he looks up and I see hes all right.

You see, I went in planning to box him six or eight rounds, but when he tried to burn my back on the ropes and knock my head against the iron post well, no man is going to do that to me and get away with it. Morris made me knock him out in two minutes.

Seven months after Morris, Dempsey would take his controlled fury to Toledo and brutally sever Jess Willards grip on the heavyweight championship.
Click to expand...

Doesn't sound like a fix to me.Dempsey in his autobiography said when he was a struggling youngster just earning crust as a sparring partner to Morris the big man would take liberties in the ring. He also recalled being half-starved sitting across a table watching Morris tuck away a huge meal and telling him to stop staring as he was putting him off his grub.Dempsey said Morris was the only fighter he hated.

Seamus · May 16, 2016

There is so much smoke in Dempsey's resume, that only deluded would believe there is no fire beneath.

dempsey1234 · May 16, 2016

Seamus said: ↑

There is so much smoke in Dempsey's resume, that only deluded would believe there is no fire beneath.
Click to expand...

But still he is revered while you on the other hand are not:|
https://youtu.be/AKC8pSFg1Vw

substitute trollin' trollin' for rollin yeeha trollin trollin

janitor · May 16, 2016

You can only go so far with these argument gentlemen.

Which fights were fixed and why?

If a lot of his pre title fights were fixed, then he gains kudos for destroying the best fighters of his era, with limited top level experience.

Why would you get a dilapidated Carl Morris to take a dive, when your fighter was up against Fred Fulton soon?

Surely the point of fighting Morris, would be to get him ready for Fulton?

Then Fulton who has been waiting years for a title shot, can finally get his chance if he beats you, agrees to take it easy to improve the gate?

I dont buy that.

The anti-Dempsey sentiment here seems to be reaching mania point!

Dempseys most passionate critics have blundered into arguing:
1. That most of his important pre title fights were fixed.
2. That despite this, he still somehow managed to sucker Fulton, who presumably would have done a lot better otherwise
3. Either he destroyed Willard, despite never having legitimately beaten an elite opponent, or he beat Willard because his gloves were loaded.

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