Did Dempsey duck Greb?

If I was Dempsey and I had Greb in the ring or anyone so small but exceptional especially one not known for there punching power… I’d take the chance to learn the little guys tend to be quicker, smarter and more elusive… do we know what JD was working on? No but he could gain a lot of knowledge by working with Greb instead of just thrashing a middleweight.
Greb however doesn’t owe Dempsey anything and could’ve been doing his best (weary?) to get written about? - possibly for a Dempsey pay check perhaps?

 

Keaens was a great manager… If Dempsey could make the money he did against Firpo or Carpentier I’m sure he would’ve obliged Greb with a pay check and a short night.

 

Greb had some HW wins but the SOS was much lower than the rest of his resume. Grebs size and being strictly a point fighter made him less of a threat than most of the other top LHWs who fought at HW.

 

Greb beat the man that went on to beat Dempsey

 

The term "duck" is subjective that people interpret differently from one another.

What I am comfortable in writing is, Harry Wills was the outstanding challenger during Dempsey's reign and Greb probably has the best case for the next most deserving, based solely on results (not money).

 

He did lose the H2H though it was a really a draw that could have went either way.

In any case Tunney, Miske and Gibbons were bigger than Greb and more viable threats to beat Dempsey than Greb even if Greb could defeat them. Boxing history is full of smaller guys who could beat bigger guys but said bigger guys could defeat fighters the smaller guys simply were either incapable or almost incapable of beating.

 

I don’t want to hear any excuses

This was a blatant duck and an egregious one. Dempsey actually holds the distinction of the two biggest ducks in boxing history.

Dempsey defended his title VS title eliminator losers and 2 other men whom Greb beat handily. The sad part is…Greb was not even close to the best contender of that era

 

Greb beats Brennan 3 times in a row…bill brennan gets title shot

Greb beats Miske easily…Miske gets title shot

Greb beats Gibbons in world title elimination…gibbons gets title shot. Is this a first and unprecedented in history, the loser of a World title eliminator gets the title shot instead of the winner?

 

Havent read this one yet but ive read Springs Toledos other books.They're brilliant,Does he still post here?

Did it cover all the sparring sessions with Dempsey which are seen as victories and proof of a Greb win on this website for some reason?

Or any of Grebs very own legal troubles in 1923? Or how much a ******* Kearns was?



A couple of days out from vs Billy Miske

Greb described as light heavy here but did weigh 160lbs a few days later,Did Kearns instruct him to use only his left vs Greb in the other sessions? Greb helped get in shape anyway

"Lifted him off the canvas with one right hander to the ribs"

https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...reb&y=12&x=26&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=2


Who the hell wants to vs Greb in a 8 rounder with title on the line!

https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...bid&y=17&x=14&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1

 

Dempsey was never offered his going rate to fight Greb.

When one looks for a reason it boils down to public interest. Then you find articles describing “The Greb Problem” specifically stating Greb although winning at heavyweight was not doing it in spectacular fashion in order to gain public interest.

Then you find a newspaper poll involving 500 newspapers in early 1922 after Greb had been fighting at heavyweight for 4 years. The poll asked one question “ Who should Dempsey fight next?” The results were published the day before Grebs last significant fight at heavyweight (Gibbons). Greb received no votes. A month or so AFTER he beat Gibbons that same poll put Greb at number three.

So the data supports the idea Greb was not highest in the minds of the public after FOUR YEARS fighting at heavyweight. Like Johnson not willing to accept lowball offers to fight Langford, Dempseys management wanted to fight the opponent that could best draw.

Not for a second do I buy the concept that any heavyweight champion was afraid to fight any middleweight. Especially a heavyweight champion that hit as hard and was as quick to pull the trigger as Dempsey. With five oz gloves all it would take is one well place blow.

 

So I think that there's some truth to what I seem to remember Dempsey saying. Paraphrasing heavily here, I seem to remember reading that Dempsey felt that he could beat Greb but he'd have to be at his very best after a severe training camp, and that he wasn't inclined to put himself through that when there were easier and more lucrative fights to be had.

 

Important set of Facts if indeed accurate... I wonder if too long a timeline passed upsetting them (probably not, I don't know), sadly such Underhanded Busyness has taken place in Boxing History with others.

THIS is absolutely TRUE!

 

Dempsey ducked everybody in 1922, 1924, and 1925. Greb defeated Tommy Gibbons in 1922. That arguably would have made Harry the leading heavyweight contender in that year but for Wills. So, yes, Dempsey ducked Greb, among others.

 

Nice references but "lifted him off the canvas" reeks of fanboyism and hyperbole.