Did Dempsey duck Greb?

But he wasn’t via that poll of 500 nationwide newspapers. At best he was third ranked and far below the top two.

“The Greb Problem” written about at that time that although Greb was winning at heavyweight he was not doing so in spectacular fashion in order to generate public interest.

Thus Dempsey never being offered his going rate to fight Greb. It was not a bout that the public was clamoring for. A newspaper quote from 1922:

“The idea that Greb would stand any chance vs the champion is the next thing to bring ridiculous.”

 

Perhaps, but his 1919 campaign was the single greatest year had by any fighter in the history of boxing. And it included beating heavies like Brennan, Meehan, Miske and Levinsky, most several times.

If Rickard/Kearns could turn such lackluster heavies as Carpentier and Firpo into drawing cards, they could have easily done so with Greb.

Thus Dempsey never being offered his going rate to fight Greb. It was not a bout that the public was clamoring for. A newspaper quote from 1922:

No, the idea that Carpentier would stand a chance was ridiculous.

 

Is Klompton banned? I'm shocked he hasn't responded to this thread.

 

Carp was easily marketable. There was history of light heavyweights fighting at heavyweight. Carp could BANG. Carp was world famous with success in many multiple weight divisions.

The real issue was just as the newspaper quote I posted. Greb had not been winning in spectacular fashion to make anyone believe he could stand a chance vs the powerhouse that was Dempsey. In any era the idea that a middleweight fighting the heavyweight champion would be looked upon with little excitement. What you have is one writer who pushed the idea that Greb did well during sparring sessions into “Greb would beat Dempsey”. He left out they were wearing pillow gloves however. Big miss!

Had there been huge public clamor Greb would have done better during that nationwide poll AND Dempsey would then have been offered his going rate or more to fight Greb don’t you think?

Also a heavyweight champion fighting a 165 lb middleweight is a non win situation. Had Dempsey knocked Greb out with one blow (a perfectly reasonable ending considering how hard Dempsey punched) the press would hammer Dempsey for beating up a middleweight. Had Dempsey had one ounce of trouble from a middleweight the press would hammer him again. So why go there if their was little public interest and no significant payday to begin with?

 

Among other things, Greb weighed as much as 178 in his 1919 fights. Odd that Dempsey, who won his title by challenging a giant no one thought he could beat, wouldn't allow the most accomplished challenger (outside of you-know-who) a chance at the belt.

And again, if they could make Firpo, or even Carpentier, seem legit, they could have done it for someone as accomplished as Greb.

 

“The idea that Greb would stand any chance with the champion is the next thing to bring ridiculous”. It was actually termed in the press as “The Greb Problem”

Only lowball purses.

A no win situation, the most power punching heavyweight ever vs a middleweight. No chance of any good press no matter the outcome.

 

Yes

 

A majority if not all, of the news reports about the Dempsey-Greb sparring session I have read on this forum reported that Greb outfought Dempsey. I've not read a single report that reads Dempsey outfought Greb. That a reporter thought a Greb-Dempsey fight was ridiculous is just that one man's opinion. Dempsey didn't look that great against Brennan and Gibbons, both of whom Greb defeated, Brennan twice and Gibbons two out of 3 times. Greb had the style to give Dempsey fits (proven by the sparring sessions), the only question being whether he could have maintained the stylistic advantage over 15 rounds. You mention that Greb was only a middleweight. Let me point out in 1922, he was probably regarded more as a 175 pounder by the average boxing fan because he had defeated Gibbons and won the American light heavy title from Gene Tunney. So, he was actually on a par with Carp and Gibbons as far his weight class went. It wasn't until 1923 that he dropped down to fight Johnny Wilson for the MW title. For Dempsey, he would likely have come around 170 as he did for some of his other fights. Carp weighed 172 for Dempsey and Gibbons 175-1/2. These facts, together with his success against Dempsey in their 1920 sparring sessions could have been used by the press to build up a title bout if Dempsey and Kearns had wanted to fight in 1922. But like I've said, playboy Dempsey was ducking everybody then, not just Greb.

 

Harry Greb was rumored to have told legendary writer Damon Runyon when asked about a fight with Dempsey...:"After 5 rounds or so...Jack would kill me"

 

Imagine no footage of Dempsey vs Firpo would you believe the written accounts,Something always happened when he fought

It very well could be fanboyism,Head straight to page 1 on this thread to see the Greb version.For years we've all read the handpicked versions from books on this website about these sparring sessions with Greb getting all the plaudits.Why were these pro Dempsey versions left out of Greb books to rot until (unless im mistaken) Adam Pollock found them for his recent Jack Dempsey series of books?

There's plenty of criticism of Dempsey in the series incase anyone is wondering if these are love letters


The whoored out Hollywoodland pretty nose version of Dempsey still managed to send a future worlds heavyweight champion in Sharkey through the air and the only man to deck Tunney(?) so i wouldnt be shocked if him lifting a middleweight off the deck seven years earlier with a right hander was true.The man could punch


I think any Champion should be stripped of a title if he hasn't defended it within 6 months.Shame boxing still doesnt have a ruling body

 

Klompton covers the sparring sessions very well in his Greb book . I've lent out his book to a friend so I can't review it at the moment but iirc he goes into great detail and uses many quotes from people in attendance. Greb certainly gave Dempsey fits, no doubt about it.

 

Ive just had a look

Greb is nearby surveying the scene looking as a young novice called Reilly is destroyed ,There is no way he could let Dempsey manhandle him the way he did young Reilly

"That time had come the following day" Dempsey is made to look slow and amateurish,Dempsey begged for another round and is still made to look foolish,The crowd was roaring.

Pittsburgh gazette PT Knox reports Greb @165lbs.A very decent showing for Greb with a left hook to the body.

The following day sep 2

"As Teddy Hayes called time Greb rushed the champion with an attack so furious.."

"Forced Dempsey to stand and fight"

"Both put on a tremendous display"

"Both fighters head collided with Dempsey spitting blood"

"Crowd roared for 10mins"

Sep 3

It was a tame workout on the last day with both taking it easy to the disappointment of fans.

No mention of the other reports or quotes from people in attendance apart from the newspaperman's accounts.

Dempsey didnt land a punch

Good book about Harry Greb but it is biased.