Did Dempsey or Tunney ever fight Black Heavyweights?

Of course in any given fight you have to look at what each party stood to gain.

Jim Corbett stood to gain a lot from fighting Peter Jackso when the latter was the No1 challenger and a win would likley secure a title shot. He stood to gain nothing from defending his title against him.

For Jeffries the black contenders he fought on his way up were logical career steping stones. He stood to gain nothing from defending his title against Jack Johnson.

Carnera Baer and Schmeling were all willing to fight Joe Louis when that was a route to securing another title shot.

Braddock was willing to fdefend his title against Joe Louis when he stood to gain more by loosing than winning.

Perhaps Joe Louis was the first heavyweight champion to defend his title against the top black challenger (Joe Walcott) for no reason other than that he had earned a title shot.

 

Carnera and Sharkey was willing to meet all of the black contenders out there


I would have liked to see baer take on godfrey or gains, and schmeling rematch gains when max became more mature.

 

Not sure on them and the color line, theey never rein long to determind if it would stay or go imo. They got the title, and lost it in the next fight.

Sure we know say Dempsey used the color bar, 7 long years. Or Willard or even Johnson and Jeff themselfs.

But would we used the color bar against say Marciano if he ko Walcott to win the title, and than lost it to Roland LarSarza or Don Cockell in the next fight?

 

We can only go by what these short tenure champions said.

Max Baer claimed that he would fight the winner of Louis Carnera. Of course he didnt hold the title long enough to.

Carnera would probably have fought whoever his handlers told him to.

Schmeling indicated (after beating Louis) that he might be prepared to give him a shot at the title after he had seperated Braddock from it.

Bottom line is who knows?

 

Gains beat Carnera comfortably . Sharkey wouldnt go in there with Gains.When he had matured Gains was beating Godfrey rather well when big George fouled out ,[according to Gains in his autobiography].If Godfrey deserved a title shot,which he did ,imo, so did Gains.

 

Of course the acid test is whether they would have done so while they had a title to loose.

 

Defended against black contenders:

Burns-----Johnson
Braddock-----Louis
Marciano-----Walcott, Charles (2), Moore
Johansson-----Patterson

Challenged black champions:

Willard-----Johnson
Schmeling-----Louis
Marciano-----Walcott
Johansson-----Patterson

Fought significant top-rated black contenders before or after being champion:

Corbett-----Jackson
Fitzsimmons-----Johnson
Jeffries-----Griffin, Jackson, Armstrong, Johnson
Hart-----Johnson
Schmeling-----Gains, Louis
Sharkey-----Wills, Godfrey, Louis
Carnera-----Godfrey, Gains, Louis, Haynes
Baer-----Louis
Braddock-----Lewis
Marciano-----Louis
Johansson-----Machen

Fought black opponents who were not highly rated

Sullivan
Fitzsimmons
Dempsey
Sharkey
Carnera
Baer
Marciano
Johansson

Never fought a black man at all as far as I know

Tunney

 

Jack Johnson beat all the top black heavyweight challengers of the period such as Denver Ed Martin, Sam McVea, Joe Jeanette and Sam Langford before he won the title. His run during this period is far more impresive than his title reign.

He failed however to defend his title against them once he was champion.

The first all black title fight was between Jack Johnson and Battling Jim Johnson. Battling Jim was not however in the same class as some of the better available black challengers like Sam Langford.

Johnson could have met to black challengers like Sam Langford, Joe Jeanette and Sam McVe for the title had he wished to but many of the purse offers were derisory compared to thos put up for him to fight the white hopes. There were some big purses offered up but as far as I know they were all from Europe and Australia and later on in Johnsons title reign.

 

ya whe. when george was in shape and hungry, he knocked gains out. when godfrey was a balooned 238 at age 31 he got DQed but gains never beat him. Godfrey was the best of the era for black heavyweights, gains even said "there are only two men I have ever feared...my father and george godfrey." godfrey was lucky to have a trainer like jack blackburn to show him modern boxing and punching techniques that made him such a devastating puncher

This content is protected

Heres a pic of godfrey, and godfrey wasnt even in peak shape right here in 1928

 

wow. marciano was the first too consistently take on black fighters

 

I met Gains he was a modest gentleman , if he says he was beating Godfrey handily in their last bout I believe him.Sharkey beat Wills and Godfrey ,but he would not fight Gains, too much risk for too little gain.ps Risko beat Godfrey.This pic was taken before the hand cuffs went on

 

Yes. Both while coming up to some degree and certainly in defense of his title.

However, Jeffries, Sharkey, and Carnera did fight most of the top black heavyweights of their time.

There is no doubt that Tunney, and also Dempsey, come up short on this criteria.

 

Old Fogey...What other black fighters did marciano take on. I know Keene Simmons and Tiger Ted Lowry are black. Who else? Was Bernie Reynolds?? maybe Big Bill Wilson?


ps Fogey, If you PM ragingbull, he has some Keene Simmons footage on film you might like