Did Dempsey or Tunney ever fight Black Heavyweights?

Carnera wouldnt fight Louis again,even if Duffy and Madden held Tommy Guns to his head. Primo expressed a reluctance as he lay in his dressing room after their encounter, it went along the lines of "would you,like a rematch"? "Jesu God NO!"

 

For some odd reason, the lower weights in the 30's didnt relly have a color bar. Tiger Flowers, Bat Siki, Kid Cholate, Armstrong, Joe Gans, have all been champs before Louis got his shot vs Braddock. And this is off the top of my head.

 

Perhaps Carnera does not fight Louis as a ex champ. But as Champ?? Assuming he got by Baer. Sure after the fact he say not again, but if he was champ, for a few years, perhaps he might have giving Louis a shot.

 

The color bar came down with the rise of Joe Louis. Henry Armstrong and Sugar Ray Robinson were Louis-era fighters.

However the color bar was not drawn as tightly in the United States below the heavyweights. Tiger Flowers was the first black man since Johnson to get a title shot against an American when he fought Greb in 1926---Siki fought the Frenchman Carpentier in Paris---and there were black champions in the lighter weights such as Gorilla Jones, Young Jack Thompson, Panama Al Brown, and Kid Chocolate, that I can think of, between Flowers and the rise of Louis.

 

Bernie Reynolds and Big Bill Wilson were white. I have seen pictures of them.

Tiger Ted Lowry, Keene Simmons, and Eldridge Eatman were black. I have seen pictures of them. There were almost certainly a number of others, such as Jimmy Weeks, Humphrey Jackson, Jimmy Walls, Bob Jefferson, and Art Henri, but I can't be positive. These latter men, whether black or white, were only opponents. Lowry was a very experienced and dangerous opponent for someone as inexperienced as Marciano was at the time. Simmons, despite a poor won-lost record, was considered at the time a good test. He apparently had both Cesar Brion and Roland LaStarza down. The RING ratings for 1951 had Lowry and Simmons listed as Class A fighters, meaning they were rated among the top fifty in the world.

I would estimate Marciano fought about 1/3 of his fights against black opponents.

 

Louis half killed the poor man ,who would wish that on him again?
Well ,thinking about it ,his managers would, if it had been sellable.

 

I may be wrong but judging from the film of Carnera-Gains Gains didnt just beat Carnera handily and have things his own way as history would have us believe. Carnera did pretty darn good in that fight by using his size (he was enormous compared to Gains) and he also managed to drop Gains (I dont know if it was counted as a knockdown but it was clearly a short, inside left hook that catches Gains coming in and drops him). And for the record I have article written right after Tunney won the championship where he states categorically that he is drawing the color line and will not defend the title against a black man.

 

Have you seen the entire fight? Gains had Carnera hanging on a couple of times. Gains said Carnera bundled him over,it was a comfortable win for Gains.Carnera was 68 lbs heavier than Gains.

 

Sure but this was not really a prime Carnera here.

He still had a lot to learn.

 

"bundled him over"?? He knocked him down with a punch as clean as can be while he was backing away against the ropes with Gains coming in. Like I said, Ive seen the film and it wasnt an easy win for Gains.

 

Sorry Janitor ,but this is complete and utter tosh.
When he fought Gains, Carnera had had 61 FIGHTS! And had "beaten"
Godfrey
Wright
Christner
Uzcudun
Meen
Maloney
Gorman
Hansen
Levinsky
He was 68 lbs the heavier man,the main difference here might have been that Gains wouldn't do business !

 

Yes but he still improved after this fight.

If you compare the Carnera of the second Sharkey fight to the Carnera of the Gains fight or the first Sharkey fight there is a marked improvment.

Sombody did a good job of polishing him over the period between these fights.

 

Of course that depends if you accept the second fight was on the level .
If you have had 61 fights you are as good as you are going to get, imo. Carnera had been mixing with men on the fringes of world class for quite some time , Sharkey said that Carnera had improved since their fight fight ,but in the words of Mandy Rice Davies, "he would say that wouldn't he".

 

OK

Lets leave the last round of the second fight out altogether and compare the animal on film to the one who fought Gains.

Or even take some highlights of the Baer fight where Carnera is not being bounced off the canvas.

Dont look at the drama in these fights (knockdowns knockouts) look at the more mundane bits.

We see a much more polished Carnera making much better use of his height and range.

 

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