Did Foreman cut water weight at weigh-ins?

Foremans style was designed to seek and destroy with maximum effort in his shots and witnesses from 2 generations suggests he had historical power and a good chin. He's susceptible to highly defensive styles more than anything

 

Yeah, when steroids started in boxing is anybody's guess.

My hypothesis, but it's only that, is that it came on a bigger front when weight training and trainers came into the sport, as was the case for American football.

 

His lack of head movement, upright style and long guard is not great against taller opponents. A bob and weave like Frazier's and Chisora's has is much better suited for that.

 

But what does this prove ? That guys with physical disadvantages can overcome people without ? More rounds, more fights, more hard sparring and less knowledge on the science of recovery will allow more damage to accumulate, this undermines the high skillset, ring iq and punching power of past fighters how exactly ? Chisora is an old ass man with shot reflexes and he's still making noise, considering Foreman could compete in the 90s as a fat old man decade out the ring your assessment on Foremans chances in todays era being doubtful don't mean anything. The only real differences stylistically is he paced himself better and didn't swing to destroy his opponent with every punch if you actually pay attention to his 70s fights, but he had the power to pull it off at the highest level, so he did it. He'd be walking down taller fighters and cutting off the ring, smashing the body, jabbing, setting up knockout shots because foreman has already fought bigger taller fighters. If your assessment meant anything he'd have had trouble with Jack O Halloran who was bigger and fighting behind a jab. Chisora doesn't have Georges power, or his resume

The biggest issue for me is you always focus on the limitations of past fighters ,but dont ever consider that whenever a mere top 10 cruiserweight or a small heavyweight gets introduced into the modern heavyweight division they're usually as capable of causing problems for the top and picking up some decent wins as any other super heavyweight contender like Hunter, Hide, Holyfield, Haye, Usyk, Byrd, Moorer, Donald, Perez, Jennings, a medically obese Ruiz, need I mention more ?

With that much success it actually makes one wonder what the heavyweight division would look like if the cruiserweight division was eliminated and all the smaller heavyweights were forced to challenge themselve higher up instead of just 3 of them per era. I imagine based on all evidence the average size of heavyweights would go down by at least 30 pounds and 2 inches.

 

Foreman worked behind a jab and could cut the ring, was a great body puncher. Foreman is going to land that's a fact, he always struggled with defensive fighters more than anything like a Chris Byrd, not a joshua or a dubois. It's as if Foreman never fought taller fighters the notion is quite hilarious to say the least.

He had good durability and good recovery. He does fine in todays era, Dubois almost died to Kevin Lerena and the stoppage was corrupt

 

Young Foreman fought no 6'6 guys that I am aware of, certainly no good ones. Wepner doesn't really cut it for me.

He fought three quality opponents his height. Got KO'd by one and almost by another. The one he beat easily, Norton, always fared badly against punchers.

An extended guard is not great when your at a height and reach disadvantage, easy as that.

 

So explain how those "bad" performances had anything to do with height. Lyle was a powerpuncher being compared by foreman to other big hitters like Cooney and Liston, but it was a huge slugfest and full of fighting off the ropes.

Muhammad Ali is Muhammad Ali

 

Foreman would be at least 245 if he had the fat Chisora did. Bakoles big ass used to weigh in the 230s when he was fit, now he's a fat slob weighing 280+, half of these guys aren't in the best shape

 

Keeping an opponent at bay by putting your hands on his shoulders or pushing him works much better if your arms are loinger than his than the opposite. If your arms are shorter, his hands will likley reach your face before your hands reach his shoulders.

 

That applies to everyone fighting at a disadvantage, Foremans main strategy against taller fighters is to walk them down behind a jab, work the body during the clinch, arms away and do damage on the ropes. He actually did use more head movement than usual. That's how he approached O Halloran the first 6'6 fighter he ever fought. His tactics can work, I don't see why not

Lyle actually had the shorter reach btw

 

I think he'd adjust if he continually fought much taller guys than he did in the 70's, how succesful he'd be is hard to know. But the defence he did use most frequently, with greater success against smaller fighters, would not be very effective against opponents that have the reach, height and skills to just punch in between his outstreched arms imo.

 

Mike Tyson was one of the biggest paydays to ever exist in boxing, and despite the overall high quality of fighters in retrospect, there weren't many who could approach his numbers money-wise in the late 80's and 90's, as far as I'm aware at least. China was willing to pay 25 mills for the fight to happen.

Before comparing inches, you can compare the dynamite of a punch, and the granite of the chin, and Foreman possessed both along with craft, timing, and experience. It was his reflexes, speed, and output that were failing him with the old age, making him vulnerable to a lost decision in which he could only give a good account if himself (the Holyfield fight without a belt essentially.)

 

It's a false equivalence, Chisora was never a top guy in the first place, and had no such problems in his prime. Now he's aged with clear physical disabilities that effect him significantly in the ring compared to the past and he's still beating contenders because of pure heart, basic blocking, just being aggressive. Dude probably has way more brain damage than the average 70s fighter at this point. Are you start to get the picture ? Chisora doesn't even have Foremans power to boot.

A physically declined Foreman did OK in an era with more talent that today

How big is the best heavyweight in the world today ? How many world level cruiserweights did they beat ? The logic can easily be flipped. Mediocre Cunningham gave Fury a scare. Old Povetkin was outboxing aj until he gassed

Here's another example, Parker couldn't stop fringe cruiserweight Massey and got rocked, Opetaia dominated Massey and stopped him. I'm confident Opetaia would dominate and technically dismantle Parker if he moved up. The gap doesn't exist between the top cruiserweights and heavyweights because cruiserweights have their own advantages, albeit Foreman was already about as strong as some of the stronger SHWs around

The top 70s and 60s fighters Ali, Fraizer, Foreman are absolutely beating the top guys today including Dubois, Parker, Fury, anyone not named Usyk who's 70s sized. I'm favoring someone as chinny as Norton to do a job on Parker and Kabayel stylistically

 

He's an atg puncher and durable not to mention underrated boxing skills. He has more than enough for this era lol. Even Savarese or Briggs would easily be top 10 today if Wallin and Miller got in there

He would do better than obese Ruiz who had even less defense that's for sure