Did Foreman duck Quarry

Well...Foreman cannot be trusted you see. No necessarily in a bad way, sometimes he also days very self effacing things, like his stare at Frazier was so that Joe would not noticxe his knees shaking...But Foreman makes so many statements, some contradictory, others implausible, sometimes gracious...Most anyone else I would take at his word re: & call the qucking a duck. ;-). Nor with post comeback jolly Foreman the showman.

 

I wish they had of fought. George did do better against Chuvalo, Norton and Frazier than quarry did so there is no reason why Foreman should have been worried..but the fight still never happened.

I don't like to accuse any fighter themselves of ducking be it Larry Holmes, Patterson, Rocky Marciano or anyone else because they are more often moved by the manager and complicated negotiations. Windows of oppertunity need to be timed just right. However, this seems to be a big money fight that on paper should have been a low risk defence for George and it still did not happen.


I think Quarry deserved more than two shots at the title. It does seem incredible that George was manuvered around Quary on his way to #1 contender to Joe Frazier, I still don't think George was entirely seasoned enough and warranted such a rating without facing more names like Bonnavena, Quarry, Ellis, Ali, Terrell and Patterson.

Foreman got all the way to #1 and all he had beat was Boone Kirkman and George Chuvalo! where as contenders to Frazier, ALi and Quarry were beating a lot more rated guys at that time. No wonder young George was so green against Ali in 1974.

Props to George for beating Frazier but look at who Foreman fought in 1972 compared to Alis 1972 campaign and it seems shocking George got a shot first!

 

Good point about Frazier avoiding an Ali rematch. Somehow Joe never gets slated nearly as much for this as Muhammad did in not giving Foreman a return !

As for a Foreman-Quarry bout - Jerry would have his moments but as soon as he inevitably gets sucked into a brawl,George stops him. Foreman was far more dangerous for Quarry than Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers.

 

I think Joe Frazier beating Ali was his top of the mountain. ALI was still clearly the world's next best heavyweight (since he proved it in 1974) and Frazier as champion, could always say "I already beat him!". It is kind of a Duck.

Looking back, I don't think many people realise Foreman might never had been champion had he been made to fight Ali in an eliminator to challenge Frazier.

Suppose Ali beat Foreman right after say Quarry, Ali might not have needed to take the unknown Norton in a "stay busy" fight because he would have challenged Frazier in Foremans place Jan 1973.

After losing to Ali in an eliminator, Foreman still would have beat Norton and Lyle but would be challenging Ali at a later date....and only provided he not bump into Jimmy Young beforehand.

The whole order of things and how we regard Foreman and Norton would be completely different. If things worked out that way both Foreman and Norton would still be as great as we now know they were, we just would not know it.

Makes you wonder, and then realise who there is in the shadows waiting to shine.

 

Yup, and his march towards an undeserved title shot at Holyfield was even worse. In fact downright disgraceful. It represented everything that is wrong and corrupt about this sport. He literally hyped his way into a title shot.

 

:good

 

Good points. Quarry could have been a difficult fight for Young George. For all his talent George was not the complete fighter he could have been first time around. Jerry was a potential banana skin. George was so young, he could have came back from a loss before the title, I don't get why they were so careful maching him on the way up. Perhaps that's what unsettled George after losing to Ali, he did not get how as a champion he was not ready for that kind of fight? He did not get over that loss until the 1980s. What a pity..

 

Shavers was like 5'11-6'0 in reality, and Foster, if you watch old tapes had incredibly short arms, like a dinosaur. Lyle's problem was he spent a lot of time trying to box rather than destroy guys. He was a late starter in boxing and it showed.

Foreman was a different kettle of fish. He himself said that his manager did not want him to fight Quarry, and if you watch the Goyo Peralta fights, you can see why, Peralta was 190 lbs. but was one of the most underated fighters of his generation as he gave both Foreman and Bonavena fits twice. Quarry-Foreman would have been a great fight.

 

Quarry wouldn't have stood much of a chance against Foreman.

People question Foreman's stamina, but Foreman threw a ton of shots in every fight during his first career. He only got gassed against Ali and Young - in fights where he out-landed both of them - because the fights were held in freaking saunas.

As long as the fight wasn't held in a jungle or on a tropical island, Quarry had no real chance. Jerry was never going to land more punches than George. He couldn't hit as hard. The top guys George faced - Ali, Frazier, Norton, even Chuvalo - all destroyed Quarry in pretty short order.

Plus Jerry tended to swell and cut.

I just don't see it.

Maybe ... maybe ... if they fought in a desert with no air conditioning in July ... and Jerry wasn't beaten into a bloody heap before George got dehydrated ... Jerry might outlast him.

Otherwise, no.

 

Ron Lyle won ONE round, maybe two rounds, against George Foreman - and Foreman also dropped Lyle in the only round Lyle clearly won against him. There was really nothing "life and death" about the other four rounds of their five-rounder despite Howard Cosell's delirious call any time Lyle hit him with a hard shot.

I go by styles, too. There's nothing about Jerry Quarry's style that Foreman hadn't seen and beaten.

Saying Quarry outpointed Lyle and Foreman had a harder time before knocking out Lyle (after George took a year and a half off) isn't saying much.

I could say Quarry got stopped by Frazier twice, was brutalized by Norton before being stopped, and Quarry was knocked cold by Chuvalo. None of those guys - Frazier, Norton or Chuvalo - won a round against George or gave him an trouble at all.

Quarry was a solid contender. But he had short arms. He was shorter and lighter. Stylewise, he wasn't going to land more shots than George threw at him. Quarry didn't punch harder. He was more prone to cuts and swelling. Quarry's stamina wasn't any better.

I just don't see it.

 

Wasn't Peralta even smaller than Quarry?

Often things are not as simple as they first look.

It does seem incredible that George was manuvered around Quary on his way to #1 contender to Joe Frazier, I still don't think George was entirely seasoned enough and warranted such a rating without facing more names like Bonnavena, Quarry, Ellis, Ali, Terrell and Patterson.

Foreman got all the way to #1 and all he had beat was Boone Kirkman and George Chuvalo!

Quarry took a lot of breaking down off Frazier the first time, he got past the point that Foreman used to tire. Frazier threw shorter faster hooks. Foreman, whilst powerful, was extremely wide open and susceptible to right hand counters. I can't imagine why Jerry could be so easily dismissed or not considered worth while opponent fir George in light of Foremans light navigation through the ranks.

The second time against Frazier and the Norton fight Jerry was shot. Around 1971-73 quarry would have been an excelent match for George.

 

I think George should have been made to fight an eliminator before facing Frazier. He just did not do enough for that high ranking. Sure he was more qualified than Stander and Daniels but Ali and Quarry were beating more contenders than anyone else.

Quarry deserved a third shot at the title. The Middleton, Neumann and Lyle wins were enough for a shot in 1973 and then there was the sHavers win. That alone was worth a shot..for four years only Ali and Frazier could beat him!