Did Foreman Have Tysons Number????

Tyson was ready to face Foreman, that was a fact. They both fought on the same card when Tyson faced Tillman. Foreman probably would have faced Tyson had he signed to fight him but he wouldnt sign the contract, probably because of Kings one sided deal, but Arum was representing him at the time and also wanted the fight.

It really is funny everyone assumes Foreman would push him back and beat him because Tyson couldnt handle his offense. Well Tyson punched very hard himself, and probably had a better chin than George. I say Foreman gets beaten up badly and knocked out. The limited guys didnt even need to show that much movement to bust George up and Tyson did know how to punch and step around. Georges lumbering punches would be countered to no end, and he would get stopped. I think the comebacking Foreman would have stood his best chance against Tyson in 96-97, but then again Foreman never beat anyone as close to that version of Tyson. His best win in his entire comeback was probably Lou Savarese, and that guy was 6'7 and stood in post holes he was so easy to hit. Foreman still fought him close.

 

Nobody favoring Tyson is addressing the fact that Foreman would be continually and easily shoving Mike back and away at arm's length, putting George outside of Tyson's punching range, a pretty efficient defense. Is Mike capable of offering the same angles Frazier did in his rematch with Foreman?

Smoke is recorded as standing 5'11-1/2" with a 73 inch reach, to Tyson's 5'10" with a 71 inch reach. This in comparison to George's 6'4" with an 82 inch reach.

Mike was utterly stymied and frustrated by Bonecrusher, also 6'4" with an 82 inch reach. Foreman was even more proactive at utilizing his physical advantages. Also, unlike Smith, he had no hesitation in pulling the trigger.

Watch George hammer Qawi to the deck again with that excruciating illegal right hand to the kidney. Do you believe Dwight wasn't thinking about that pain in his back when he threw up his hands in frustration and quit a couple rounds later? Do you truly expect that Tyson would maintain his composure when Foreman starts shoving him around, manhandling him, and hammering his kidneys? Maybe. Gee, it's not as if Mike blew his cool when Holyfield rammed him with those head butts.

Foreman was never disqualified. He always went into a match looking for the knockout. Think he'd care about getting penalized in the scoring, when the offending conduct furthers his goal of stopping his opponent? (Again, consider that debilitating kidney shot on Qawi.)

 

Duo Tyson won the fight on offense by UD. Bonecrusher looked to survive and hold so when there was offense Tyson was the one doing it. I dont believe Foreman would look to hold. You seem to underestimate Tyson's ability to counterpunch and thats where he would do a number on Foreman. George could be sloppy, inaccurate and telegraphing with his shots, so regardless of him continoulsy pushing Tyson back he would great openings off his jab and righthand which were often overshot.

 

All true. My point though is that Mike was indeed physically smothered to the point of frustration, and could be neutralized by size and physical strength aggressively used. When Smith finally unloaded at the very end, he rocked Tyson, but too little too late. (By the way, I've opined before that maybe Smith should have been thrown out for not trying against both Tyson and Bruno before the end, even though he knocked out Bruno. That's a cheap way to try winning a match. Kinshasa was hardly comparable, with Ali continually hurling lightning bolts off the ropes.)

I would have liked to have seen this one come off, perhaps the most frustrating non event of the 1990s. (PBF-Pac is certainly comparable today.) Certainly Foreman was using the skilled and cagey Qawi as a stand in for Mike, to gain some experience dealing with a short, skilled and cagey performer. Tyson would have a ridiculous advantage in hand speed, but that didn't help Patterson against George's old buddy Liston.

Obviously, Mike would need to slip and counter, but that can be a significant challenge when dealing with a much taller bigger stronger man who is steadying you at arm's length for his own shots. We also need to bear in mind that Tyson was more of a mid range fighter, George's preferred distance.

 

If George had Tyson’s number it was only mentally. A mental edge goes a long way but any version of Tyson was always better than a lot of the guys who should have got decisions over old Foreman. IMO Tyson was far too quick.

They say "it takes one to know one" and after first clapping eyes on Tyson old George saw straight through the scary haircut and intimidating ring walks because as a young man George played the same psychological games of intimidation himself. He reckoned he could launch himself as "Mr happy hamburger the jolly comeback king" and freak Tyson out when he took him too lightly.

Trouble was the timing was wrong, they missed each other and after George fought Holyfeild everyone was taking him seriously anyway so that meant he was losing his best weapon against Tyson in any potential showdown.

Old George, always a bad ass deep down, may have made fortunes in his comeback but ended up having to play the "happy hamburger" act for a lot longer than he wanted to!

 

I think Tyson is significantly stronger than both Patterson and Qawi as well as Frazier. I find it hard using Tyson as a comparison because he was one of the first of the new breed of physically bigger stronger heavies even though he was short. I also think Tyson punched harder and faster than anything George had ever seen. I could see George being hit like Ali hit him with his speed only Tyson wouldnt have to wait as long to find George like Ali did. Tyson might be in firing range, but he had a good enough chin to counter off Georges shots if he managed to land.

 

no

 

Indeed. Also, nobody caught peak Tyson with the kinds of (albeit heavy handed)slow "washer woman" blows that old george threw. Sure old george was crafty, he could time range and knew when to pull the trigger but even though he could manhandle Tyson in a clinch I dont see him not taking punches before he gets there. George knew this I just think he was prepared to gamble that he could undo Tyson mentally.

 

100% a YES from me. :deal

Tyson would fight like -

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kblp3kYuKRU[/ame]


Foreman would fight like -

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4-WjL8jIyQ[/ame]


And in 3 mins or sooner -

This content is protected

This content is protected

glgl

 

Former CW Holyfield muscled Tyson around pretty convincingly, and George didn't take a backwards step against a younger, near peak Evander. I believe Holyfield indicated that Foreman, not Mike, was the hardest puncher he was ever hit by.

Yes, I agree he was significantly stronger than Patterson and Qawi, but he negated some of this with the squared up peek-a-boo, where Frazier could establish a good base with his back foot. (During his reign, he even taught this to Dick Cavett, demonstrating the relative security of this position.)

Smoke was actually pretty strong physically against anybody not named Foreman or Chuvalo. Penitentiary bodybuilder Jumbo Cummings was not able to muscle him around in their 1981 draw. It took either a genetic freak like Foreman, or a lifelong strength training enthusiast like Chuvalo to stand his ground (which the Canadian did against everybody, even Foreman, before his bell got rung by that hook).

Just how functionally strong Tyson was is an interesting question. I don't think he was nearly as powerful as his musculature and low center of gravity suggest, based on Holyfield I & II. And Foreman shoved around the steroided Morrison with such casual ease. I just don't see Mike coming close to matching muscular strength with the big guy. (And in a sumo wrestling contest, I'd bet the mortgage on George.)

 

It dosn't realy matter whether Foreman had Tyson's number at that stage, because he would have been too far gone to implement it.

 

Foreman used Tyson the same way Pacman is using Floyd.......strictly for marketing reasons......and avoiding said fighters at all cost. The end.

 

Foreman wanted Tyson simply for the big payday. He was willing to take a beating in exchange for several million dollars. Remember: Foreman was all but broke when he came back in '87. His hamburger, nice-guy schtick was a ploy designed to increase his popularity to the point where he would be given a title shot without having to earn it (risk it) against a legitimate fighter. Tyson would have beaten George badly; he would have really banged him up. Foreman got beaten up by Holyfield in a fight where George only proved himself as being a tough guy with a lot of determination and a strong chin. The fight was lopsided.

 

:good