Did Froch beat the best version of Taylor ?

I'm just messing with ya! I suspect you knew that:yep

I think the Taylor/Abraham fight will answer some questions. Arthur Abraham is not a world class opponent, and has never been anywhere near a ring with someone like Jermain in it. If JT loses to Abraham, it means he's shot to ****, and needs to retire. If he wins, it only means he might have something left. At this point I'm looking forward to that fight more than any other.

 

:yep I suspected as much, hence the "mutha ****a" on the end. I'm really looking forward to seeing how Taylor performs against Abraham, I suspect he'll do well in fact I'm predicting a Taylor win. I'm not sure that Abraham isn't world class though but an argument could certainly be made that he is unproven at the level of opposition he will be facing in the tournament. Why do you think Abraham isn't world class given his peformance at Middleweight and his undefeated status?

 

Pavlik fought the best Taylor. He fought an undefeated, unscarred version. Pretty simple really.

Even if you bought into the idea that he was too cocky, or punched himself out in the first, he was at his absolute best in the rematch because he knew he needed to be, but he still lost.

 

edit

 

Bit of a contradiction there. First you say he was at his best when he was undefeated, then you say he was at his absolute best in the rematch when, obviously, he had already been defeated. So to clarify, do you think he was at his best in the first Pav fight or the second?

Not trying to be a smart arse, just after an opinion :think

 

I have seen 7 of Abraham's fights, and thoroughly researched his resume. As a world titlsist AA did things like fight a guy who was coming off KO losse to Joval, and fight guys whose last 6 opponents had 30-35 collective losses, et. The vast majority of AA's titles defenses came against guys with a KO ratio of 40% or less. And so on.

Anytime I try to point the facts out to people I get called a blind hater. However, the fact is that most of AA's opponents were club fighters and feather fisted prospects. He won a vacant title and kept it for 4 years. Get that! Four years as a world titlist, and yet Miranda remains his best win. He had multiple chances to choose a good opponent over a can. Everytime a choice like that came up, Sauerland/Abraham chose the easier, softer path.

 

Hmmm, you make a good case for Abraham being at the least unproven. Even more curious to see how he fares against Taylor now. You think Abraham will be....and I hate to use this word..."exposed" ?

 

What I was trying to demonstrate is any which way you want to look at it Pavlik beat the 'best' version...he can hardly be getting better after 2 losses at his age, he still demonstrates the same flaws. I actually think the second time he fought Taylor, Taylor fought a lot better.

There obviously isn't much difference between that and the version Froch fought, he hasn't declined greatly, but its natural Pavlik would get more credit for doing it first and second.

 

That makes sense. I also thought Taylor performed better in the second Pav fight. I was actually uncertain that Taylor lost that fight. Some people make the argument that Taylor faded / "gassed" at Middleweight because he struggled to make weight. What are your thoughts on that?

 

I dunno, the last two rounds he was throwing practically nothing and kept keeping distance and was being chased by Carl. Sometimes he unleashed small fluries but he was less active than the previous rounds. Especially the last minute of 11th where he was running and sometimes countering when Froch came too close. Clearly he was tired but he tried not to give in or let Froch know so he stayed a little bit busy:think

 

I'm not sure, I tend to think its either a natural problem for him, or he misses something in his training. It happened against Froch, by six rounds there were signs of him tiring, and Taylor has controlled the pace for most of that period. Maybe the pace was slightly higher than usual, but it was nothing he shouldn't have been able to handle by six or seven rounds, yet he looked like he'd fought for 10 or 11.

Basically its been a recurring theme throughout Taylor's career, and the bad thing for him is when he tires he loses concentration and defence and becomes a sitting duck. I'd need to see evidence in this tournament that he can fight 12 hard rounds before forgetting everything that has come before.

 

There's a better option available than taking my word for anything. Pop over to You Tube and watch Abraham/Miranda I, Abraham/Ikeke, and Abraham/Simon. As you watch these fights keep one question in mind: What if Arthur had a world class opponent in front of him?

 

I don't think Jermain was by any means washed up, but he had serious stamina issues in that fight. Past round 8, he hardly threw a punch! You could argue that Froch induced that tiredness, but I doubt it; Froch started nervously and was not putting on much pressure until late, and Jermain looked very comfortable for the first half of the fight. Plus, Taylor was fighting at SMW, where he naturally isn't as good as he was when he was younger down at MW. He just didn't really look like he wanted to fight.

He gave a great performance against Pavlik the second time; since then, he hasn't been the same.

 

Call me crazy if you want, but I think Jermain spends to much time trying to win the fight, and not enough time trying to win rounds!

 

May be a natural problem then, although he didn't seem to tire too badly in the second Pav fight which was at 164. He also said he put 110% in the gym for the Froch fight....maybe bull**** maybe not....maybe he left something in the gym? I'm going to be very interested to see how both Taylor and Abraham do on the 17th. Having said that I'm going to find all of these fights interesting :yep