Did George Foreman duck anyone ?

Foreman was Lineal champion hence he was considered the man of the division even though in reality he wasn't. If he wasn't willing to fight any notable contenders according to you he should've just stayed retired and let the younger top guys fight for the Lineal title.

So yes it was stalling the division because you had a 3 year period of Foreman hand picking opponents holding onto the Lineal title he was too old as it was just retire with your health intact.

Foreman didn't have to fight Briggs the WBC gave him a list of opponents to fight Chris Byrd, Hasim Rahman, even Buster Douglas who was on the comeback trail Foreman "hand picked" Briggs. Hence they were probably tired of the weak matchmaking, and gifted Briggs the decision so the division could move on and have a legit Lineal Champion and Foreman could finally retire.

 

More in line with your view in this time. My rating him high is compared to the 80s HWs. I could see why Tucker would deserve a title shot based on ranking systems in 1995 but the matchups I wish happened are Holmes and Spinks a decade earlier where he might have been the best HW when Spinks fought Holmes.

 

George Foreman didn't want to work with Don King. Tony Tucker was promoted by Don King. When Mike Tyson was in prison, he wasn't promoted by anyone. His contract with Don King had expired.

When Foreman knocked out Moorer, Boxing News and other pubs talked about the epic showdown between Foreman and Tyson and all the money it would make. Everyone wanted to be champion when Tyson got out of jail, because they wanted the Tyson fight.

So every promoter in the world went to visit Mike Tyson in prison hoping to sign him. They all went. Arum went. George Foreman went as champion. Kushner went. King went. The Duvas went. The Goosens went. Rock Newman and Bowe went. Even new guys looking to become promoters.

Nobody knew who Tyson was going to sign with when he was released in 1995.

I think even the Nation of Islam thought they had Tyson locked up. He had a minister in there. Then Don King worked out a deal with the MGM Grand for $30 million a fight for I believe six fights (unheard of in 1995). All Tyson had to do was sign with King.

So, the cameras where there when Tyson was released. And when he walked out of jail, he walked out with King, hopped in his limo, and I don't know if the jailhouse minister ever saw him again.

But Tyson was released in 1995. Foreman was already signed to fight Shulz. That went sideways. And Foreman dropped the IBF belt in the first couple days in June 1995, as it was clear Tyson was going ahead with the McNeeley fight in August.

And George knew it was over.

 

The WBC DID NOT and WOULD NOT give George Foreman a list of opponents to fight in 1997 because George Foreman wasn't the WBC champion in the 1990s. EVER.

Whatever you're talking about is all wrong.

Foreman won the WBA and IBF belts from Moorer. Within eight months, he'd vacated both. Nobody was being held up.

Foreman had no belts. No WBC belt. No WBA belt. No IBF belt. No Ring belt. No belts. No orgs were telling him what to do after June 1995.

There was no three-year-period when anyone was demanding a fight with him. I have no idea where that's coming from. It simply didn't happen.

The two guys the WBA and the IBF wanted him to fight in 1995 - Tucker and Shulz - both got title fights in 1995, after Foreman vacated (Tucker against Seldon and Shulz against Botha), and both lost.

Nobody was HELD UP. Foreman didn't hold anything hostage. Not for three years. Not at all. As soon as the WBA said he had to fight Tucker, he dropped it. As soon as the IBF mandated he fight Shulz again, he dropped it.

Nobody was denied anything except the fans who wanted to see Foreman-Tyson.

 

Yes we finally agree on something i'm not all bad trust me.

 

It was an eliminator for Lewis's WBC title my mistake.

 

That's interesting thanks for the write up you have to remember i wasn't born then so sometimes i do need some background on certain things that were happening back then.

 

Foreman ducked Schulz even his most ardent fans must admit that. Foreman’s team paid to have the unranked Schulz ranked so the bout could be sanctioned. Then Schulz beat Foreman up, Foreman then dropped the belts rather than fight Schulz again. Did Foreman retire no, he faced the awful Crawford Grimsley after Schulz was out of the way having fought Botha and Moorer.
That’s as clear of duck as there is. Put it this way.

Fighter A chooses a cherry pick - pulls strings to make the bout possible. Then proceeds to lose clearly to fighter B in the eyes of most people. Fighter A then gives up his belt rather than grant fighter B a deserved rematch. Fighter A then proceeds to fight on, and faces a terrible opponent far inferior to fighter B in their next match.

If you want to give Foreman an old man pass for not fighting top guys I get it somewhat, but he did seek Schulz out - a fighter no one had heard of- gave him the fight instead of more deserving or known opponents and when he lost - he dropped his belt and never gave him a rematch. That’s a duck!

 

I think Foreman mainly wanted to fight Tyson before Tyson went to prison when Foreman was trying to be taken seriously again.

Schulz at this point was best known for drawing with Akinwande who was still undefeated. The competitive rematch of that fight was Schulz's only loss. How he got three title shots in a row before Akinwande got to fight for even the WBO belt is a little perplexing. Akinwande was seemingly rated higher this whole time.


Speaking of Schulz the guy Briggs beat before getting the Foreman shot had just lost a decision to Schulz. I can't find much info on that anywhere but maybe that was close?

 

By the same token, most diehard fans had totally dismissed George as the heavyweight champion by the time Tyson-Holyfield came around- and he was no longer in the Ring's Top 10. He may as well have retired, as he turned an amazing story into a farce and effectively froze the title. Although he did seem keen on the Tyson fight, that's true, but after that nothing. By 1996, the 'Lineal' diehards were few and far between.

 

...although I didn't hold it against George for vacating the WBA belt, as the seemingly endless #1 mandatory status Tucker enjoyed by merely existing, was a farce.

 

Are you referring to Ali here? I don't think many people seriously think he ducked Quarry to face the biggest fight out there- and his mandatory.

 

I'm saying if he was scared ****less of Quarry, he wouldn't have gone anywhere near Ali who beat Quarry twice (and was 3-1 against two guys who were 2-0 over Quarry), mandatory or not.

But yeah I'm sure he was ****ing bricks after seeing Quarry dropped by Jimmy Alexander or whatever his name was.

 

But the Quarry 'ducking' story (whether true or not) is a 1973 thing, not 1974.

 

The Ring year end rankings come out in October at least they do now. Foreman fought Grimsley in Novemeber and hadn't fought for the previous 18 months. Of course he wasn't rated. Though the 1997 ratings suggest they'd have had him behind Witherspoon regardless as they had Witherspoon 5th ahead of Foreman at 6th. In 1996 Witherspoon was 10th suggesting Foreman might have just missed it if he was eligible.