Did George Foreman duck anyone ?

Do they? They definitely didn't then. These ratings are taken after the Tyson-Holy fight (which was a week after Grimsley) as Evander is back at the top.

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: 1996 - BoxRec

 

Forum
Boogeyman
“Big”
James
Toney

 

I reckon Toney gave George 'Joltin Jimmy' style nightmares, once he stepped up to Cruiser.

 

No one from the 70s beer goggles crowd would ever admit it… that would mean someone who isn’t an “ATG” could beat one of the three apostles, it would almost be like real life where people lose based on boxing not the prestigious Bert Sugars favour!

 

George said multiple times as an HBO commentator during fights that he would not fight Lewis or Bowe. George won the title and held it for quite a while before it was stripped ... at that time regardless of age he was a champion and obligated to defend or abdicate.

 

Records are meaningless when you fight terrible opposition. Briggs was coming of a kayo loss to Darroll Wilson of all people. Stewart never beat anyone ranked in the top 10 and Morrison was taken out by Michael Bentt, drew with Purrity and only claim to fame is beating Foreman himself. Bowe fought Herbie Hide who knocked out Bentt. The same Bentt that knocked out Morrison.

Ferguson fought far better competition than any of these guys. He got a fight with Bowe off his win over Mercer WHO KNOCKED MORRISON OUT

 

Jesse Ferguson was the journeyman's journeyman.

If you want to argue who was a journeyman, Jesse Ferguson lost to Tony Tubbs, lost to Michael Dokes, and lost to Bruce Seldon all in the same year leading up to his out-of-nowhere upset a totally untrained Mercer on points.

It was a fluke win. And then Jesse stunk out the joint against Bowe. Didn't even try and didn't last two rounds.

Ferguson was 19-9 when he challenged Bowe, and lost six of his next seven after that. Ferguson was the journeyman old guys like Tubbs and Dokes used to get wins on ESPN. Old Larry Holmes used Ferguson to pad his record to get a title shot.

And you're harping on Briggs losing one fight?

Bowe didn't fight a lot of fellow young, rising fighters. George arguably fought more of them than Bowe did.

Jesse Ferguson certainly wasn't a fellow, young contender when Bowe faced him in 1992. Ferguson was a journeyman getting the break of a lifetime, and the matchup was so bad they had to put Jones-Hopkins on the undercard to hopefully sell some tickets.

 

Holyfield and Lewis were clear replacements and recognized as such by the public by virtue of beating better opposition. Foreman was not taken seriously post Schulz. Lewis was also undefeated throughout the entirety of Foreman's reign while beating better opposition.

 

These young fighters Foreman faced ended up not amounting to much. I wouldn't rank Morrison, Briggs, or Stewart among their eras top 25, probably not even top 30. Briggs faced dire opposition and would have far more losses had he faced actual contenders. The idea Bowe should have fought Morrison is bonkers. Bowe can be criticized for not fighting Lewis or Tyson but Morrison and the like would not have been a priority.

Bowe fought Hide, Donald, and Seldon and I wouldn't put Morrison over any of them

 

Fair enough. My point stands though if Foreman was really running scared of Quarry, he would've **** his pants at the prospects of facing Ali the next year. On top of Quarry being 0-2 against the guy Foreman demolished with ease to win the title, Quarry was 0-2 against Ali as well, and had also lost to Chuvalo, and Ellis both of whom Ali wiped the floor with. Ali had also cleared out the division.

It just doesn't track that Foreman was scared to step in the ring with Quarry given that he had zero issues stepping in the ring with Ali, who was Quarry's superior in every metric.

 

Foreman had to fight Ali or be stripped of his belts. Ali's reputation was such that not fighting him wasn't an option if Foreman wanted to stay champion.

Likewise Joshua fighting Usyk is not proof he didn't duck Bakole, Zhang, Kabayel, etc as Usyk was mandatory and he would have been stripped of belts had he not faced him

 

Please show me anywhere on film of his fight with Ali in the early rounds, or footage of him preceding the fight where he seemed to be scared and/or lacked confidence.

It's clear as day, the way he walks through Ali's punches in the first round, he thinks it's going to be another Frazier/Norton scenario. He legitamitely thought he was invincible and that nobody could take his punches. that's why the loss to Ali mentally destroyed him.

Take a look at his demeanor in Zaire, and against Lyle. Night and day difference.

 

I always thought that limbering up on the ropes thing when the bell goes a bit strange actually. Against Joe and Kenny, he's into right centre as soon as the bell goes; against Kirkman for example, he runs over and pushes Boone to the floor immediately as soon as the bell sounds. This time he's limbering up with his back turned away from Ali for about 20 seconds...and he's still doing it when bell goes.

Fighters don't duck a payday that big.

 

Foreman was overconfident, not reticent. If he had a bit more fear he would have been more in line with the norm. He'd just destroyed two fighters that defeated Ali and gave him trouble in rematches as if they were children. Ali ducked a Foreman rematch as you yourself stated quite strongly below, and was lusting after Ali a second time.

Foreman was the number one mandatory contender- he beat up Frazier again, was hotly tipped to beat Ali mid-76 and it would have been another massive heavyweight bout. He was constantly in the press asking for the rematch; gatecrashed an Ali press conference and a 2nd fight was agreed in principle...Ali fudged the issue through 1976 by retiring...then coming back...then retiring every other week.

 

Possibly. That doesn't mean Ali hadn't gotten into his head somewhat. Either way it's unusual behaviour. I couldn't imagine, say, Tyson doing something like that against Spinks.

All true. Any fighter worth their salt would want a rematch and George campaigned ferociously for one. A subject that became something of a hobby horse for me back in the day.