Did George Foreman fight like an unskilled bum against Ali ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Unforgiven, Oct 26, 2009.


  1. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Foreman had no defense coming forward. Just look at his fight with Norton:

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    He just walked in wide open looking to load up for the KO, the same as he did against Ali. He looks as wide open here as he did against Ali, and later against Lyle and Young. The difference here is he's fighting a guy considerably slower than himself or Ali, who isn't really comfortable boxing, and has shown in other fights that he doesn't hold up well under pressure and powerpunches.

    Foreman showed good boxing ability against guy who came to him (ie: Frazier, Chuvalo) but not against ones that made him take the lead.
     
  2. MrMarvel

    MrMarvel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    So Frazier and Norton couldn't box?

    It was combination of Ali's genius and something wrong with Foreman that night that caused that upset. Ali likely would have pulled off the victory anyway (he was greatest), but Foreman could have looked better and he usually did. In that fight and the Young fight you see a Foreman uncharacteristically sloppy and clumsy. He usually didn't look that way.

    Of course, I do recognize the ulterior motive behind trying to make these definitive performances for Foreman. I hope we all would.
     
  3. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not particularly.
     
  4. prime

    prime BOX! Writing Champion Full Member

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    About soccer, an old radio "mentor" of mine once remarked, "You don't play well when you want to, but when they let you."

    George Foreman could never handle speed. For a huge puncher, he was an adequate boxer, but, against Ali, he couldn't get off properly in time because of the rain of jabs and crosses constantly harassing him and disrupting his rhythm.

    He thus improvised his Mummy-"defense", vainly outstretching the arms and thus looking like an unskilled bum.

    As would be natural for a man-mountain of punishing offense, it would feel pretty weird to be on the receiving end of pretty solid shots from the opening bell. Ali was right in observing before Zaire that Foreman didn't like to get hit, and it showed: the grimaces and wincing were those of a juggernaut suddenly getting battered and thus looking like an unskilled bum.

    The way to defeat the Rope-a-Dope is to get in close and bang away with swift, short, powerful shots between and around the raised gloves. As a tall man with his prey against the ropes, Foreman's long-distance shots could be anticipated and braced for. The experienced Ali was simply able to pull back from many of these, thus causing Foreman to vainly lunge forward and to-and-fro with momentum and look like an unskilled bum.

    Foreman simply met too great of a fighter that night: a man who could box, move and counter at surprising speed, with concrete will, arms, body and chin. George would have, as was usual, simply wrecked through many men that morning. But not this one.
     
  5. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    breaking a fighter's rhythm - getting to the higher stuff - good shout prime.
     
  6. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Basically the way Frazier did.

    The other option would be to not follow him to the ropes and try to sucker him back into ring center, as Lyle did.
     
  7. prime

    prime BOX! Writing Champion Full Member

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    Easier said than done! But Ali had a whole bag of tricks on hand to do so:
    offensively, he always tried to land first, and his accuracy, reach and speed made this a constant reality.

    On defense, even at 32, he still moved around like crazy, using little feints, backing up perfectly stanced, moving laterally taking long steps, and spinning around and behind an opponent on the ropes, to name some.

    No wonder he was fiendishly difficult to beat.
     
  8. prime

    prime BOX! Writing Champion Full Member

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    So, no one knew it, but, with loose ropes to boot, the wide-swinging Foreman, who would never mosey to the other rope and initiate a leaning contest, was doomed.