Did Gil Clancy help or hurt George Foreman?

George Foreman had already been a world champion. He was full of potential and in his physical prime so there was plenty to work with. But back then George was very much his own man. A trainer can only get out of a fighter what the boxer wants to do. I think George had a lot of demons back then and was not so receptive to ideas. I read that Clancy had a lot of trouble trying to get George to take fights because his confidence was so bad after the Ali fight that he only wanted to take fights he knew he could win. He also found George difficult to deal with in that he had his own ideas of how to do things by then.

I found this on the net:


"George was very difficult to train in those days," Clancy said.

"The Young fight was in Puerto Rico, and we wanted George there three weeks before the fight. He came in eight days before. He wasn't easy to deal with then. At that stage of his career, he had his own ideas on how to prepare."

 

People are always looking for an excuse for why Foreman didnt achieve more in his prime. Look no further than Foreman himself. Clancy didnt ruin him, Foreman was just never that versatile, skilled, or fit. Period. He had no plan B and when you are as big, strong, durable, and hard hitting as him in the HW divisions thats ok but if you are fighting guys like Ali and Young thats going to be a big problem. People try to find something wrong with him to explain struggling with Lyle and losing to Ali and Young but the fact is that in fighting those three he was facing a higher level of opposition than anyone he fought prior to Frazier and three guys who stylistically were a bad matchup for him whereas Frazier and Norton stylistically made Foreman look good.

 

helped ................it was foreman carrying young that hurt george

 

Hallelujah.
Someone who talks sense on Foreman.
That's a rare breed.
He's hugely overrated due to the Frazier ,Norton blowouts.
Foreman in 77 was no different from a few years earlier.
A crude slugger, who was hugely dangerous early.
Unless Clancy could fit him with a better technique, learn him to move his head, fit him with a boxing brain and attach a large gas tank, there wouldn't be much he could do.

 

Allot of misinformation.

Georges jab was called the best jab since Joe Louis during the 70's. He had an excellent hard quick jab although he dropped it.

Foreman was not slow. Ali stated he was surprised how quick Foreman was when they fought.

The Foreman who fought Lyle had not fought for 15 months. A very dangerous proposition since Lyle was a big hitter. He was nearly koed but coming out on top in a tough fight is a big plus.

Stopping Frazier and Norton so quickly and so decisively was no small feat. Today it's downplayed in some ways but during that time it was considered a big deal and IT WAS a BIG DEAL and was why Goerge was a 3-1 favorite over Ali going into their bout in 74.

Clancys work with Foreman was the only sensible thing to do. It was obvious George was a flawed fighter coming out of his ko loss to Ali. He fought in a frenzy from the opening bell which made him Peter out quickly. Clancy slowed him down so he could pace himself over distance knowing that any one punch could end or begin to end a fight. It was this style he came back with a decade later to rewin the hwt championship.

 

At the end of the day it really was down to George how he coped in the ring, as with any boxer really. U can have the best trainer /corner in the world and still get off your stool and do your own thing. But I think that George did take on board a lot of gils work and used that. He had to slow down, punching away at ali and then gassing proved that. In his second career he had learned just that.. Patience was the key word with a big guy like foreman. So yes I think gil did foreman some good in the end.

 

I suggest you guys watch the Young fight in full. This was Foreman at his mature peak.He shouldve been the best he ever could be. For the second time in his career he was up against a boxer who could move and wasnt fazed by his reputation. He looked the same crude cumbersome amateur as in Zaire. There was absolutely zero difference. When i read about him being this greatest ever puncher and ATG number 4 , this human wrecking ball and then i actually look at the evidence i wonder if the folks on his bandwagon ever actually watched any of his fights other than a highlight reel of a couple of his knockouts ?

 

Hey gg, I've a George foreman grill here going cheap.. U interested mate lol. Only kidding around pal. I get where you're coming from, but George was never going to be the second coming of Ali to be honest. He was up against a cagey guy in young and to be honest jimmy was always going to be wrong for him. It would have been interesting to see foreman hang around after the young fight and continue his career. See how he went on in to the 80 s. He didn't do to bad when he came back though did he?

 

I watched prime Foreman train and TRUST ME he hit like a sledgehammer. Never heard any hwts punches sound like his. I've also watched Frazier, Shavers, Norton and Ali train by the way.

There is a long history of punchers losing to tricky boxers. The way to beat a huge puncher is via clever boxing. Foreman losing to both Ali and Young from an historical perspective is no huge surprise.

 

Thing is a great fighter should not lose to Jimmy Young. He was a tough clever spoiler but he drew with Billy Aired.

Jimmy was seasoned, he was tricky in that he had that great sparring partner mentality that he could dip into. It allows a spoiler to coast through the rounds because you can fight only so hard so as to keep the rounds close then steal a round later on. It's how they all used to fight on the booths. They took on all comers all day and today people would think how come they could do so many rounds all day, but they were only looking to win the last moments of a round. Jimmy Young was not a booth fighter, but he was in all the gyms, the guy was a survivor and he was smart.

I don't care how close Jimmy made fights look or what he achieved. Great fighters should not fall for that kind of thing. I like Jimmy, he over achieved because he was smart..but he was not a great fighter.

 

For a veteran he did very well.
Judged on a level playing field disrespective of age, he just did ok.
Beating Moorer wouldnt put anybody else on a pedestal , would it ?
As for the grill, i bought my wife one for Christmas several years back. It got used once. A bit like an electric flosser or a foot spa. They end up on a car boot sale !

 

Spot on.
Also he didnt just scrape by Foreman.
By the end of the fight Foreman looked finished.
Round 10- 12 Foreman v Young looked like Round 7- 8 Foreman v Ali. As you say , a great fighter shouldnt end up like that against Young. Ali made hard work of Young but Ali was way past his best. GF was in his prime.
I watched the whole of the Young fight again. GF looked terrible. Clumsy , uncoordinated, amateurish etc. This time there was no excuse to say it was The Greatest who exposed him.
I would love anybody to watch that fight and tell me how it was much different to Zaire and how based on it, they make GF a top 4 ATG ? Its Madness !
Gil Clancy couldnt do anything to fix those flaws. They were unfixable. The guy had a blasters chance with anybody dumb enough to use the wrong style. Standing in front of him was what Frazier did. Norton backed up in straight lines. Lyle just stood and slugged.Moorer stood stock still in front of him.
Foreman could swing heavily at a target , i will give him that, but Gil Clancy didnt improve him at all.