Foreman didn't "carry" Young...it was George just being befuddled and unable to cope with that sytle. He was used to guys quaking with fear like Norton, or with major physical disadvantages like Frazier...add to that opponents with no real defense like Lyle and many others who met George head on....a suicidal plan if there ever was one, even if you had some fire power and was able to score a few kds like Ron did. When you fought George like that you had better knock his ass out or he'll muster the superior firepower to more than return the favor. The problem with Young was that his style was pure poison for Foreman....and it wouldn't have mattered if Foreman was in better shape or if he fought in an air conditioned arena right in the heart of Texas or MSG, he still would have lost to Young...and remember, it was just as hot for Jimmy in San Juan as it was for George...he was just able to deal with it better. George also underestimated Young, like you've done in your post...not that it would have mattered that much if George hadn't...Young was just too smart and sneaky for him....he was a master defensive boxer...and even a lesser example of a clever boxer like Gregorio Peralta gave George fits...and I know that was in 1970, but the basic matter of conflicting styles would remain the same. These type fighters would always give Foreman trouble...he needed opponents who would offer their chins as ritual sacrifices...like Frazier, Norton and Moorer...who wrote plenty of checks, but hung around too long for the receipt...as Teddy Atlas was fond of saying. Young famously never did any of that ****...and that's why everyone he fought dreaded him, and the officials conspired to eliminate him from the scene....after all, nobody wanted to be made to look foolish en route to losing.
Anyone who buys Foremans excuse that he carried Young is being stupid. Foreman the huge puncher was simply outboxed by the tricky boxer. Been happening since Sullivan Corbett.
I've seen it stated by people that actually get paid to spread their boxing knowledge that Foreman would have been much better off going after Young as he did Ali and co. He would have had far more chance of getting him out of there, and early is the premise. He had him in enormous trouble in the 7th and full credit to Young surviving however Foreman was blowing hard by then where as early on he would have been much more difficult to survive. Being repelled by Ali is one thing but young is no Ali, no-one was. Partially on the flipside is George's biggest problem post Ali was mental. The Ali loss really really got to him and he had trouble dealing with his sudden loss of invincibility both in the public's eye and his own. It really did a number on his head as evidenced by some of his outlandish stories and ramblings. So it's a toss up for me how Foreman would have gone being his old aggressive self. Pacing himself played right into Youngs hands as he was a top little boxer and one of the best around. It's absolutely not impossible he would have got him out of there, and sure not that Young would have survived and prevailed. People can make their own judgements. Young was a very light hitter and would not have deterred George or made him pay as Ali did in spurts. At the end of the day i am not convinced Clancy helped him one iota. Maybe if George kept fighting they could have, over time, found a nice workable compromise but it was going to take some time obviously. At the end of the day i wonder if first career George would always be better off simply going at it. Losing to Ali was no shame and even if George paced himself a bit better Ali was always going to have an answer rest assured. He threw enough missiles to win 5 fights against more mortal opposition and throwing less punches was never going to have him prevail. Ironically given the way he fought Ali he probaby showed quite reasonable stamina in reaching the point he did.
Another obstacle for Foreman was how do you motivate yourself when you have already achieved your ultimate goal in the first place? Maybe the retirement was what George needed to challenge himself. He certainly was not mature enough first time around to combat his own personal demons.
The Jimmy Young fight is irrelevant. George Foreman toyed with Jimmy Young. Didn't go for the knock out like Clancy told him to do. This is according to Gil not Foreman making excuses. Foreman threw his punches a little more sharp. You can just look at his fight against Frazier. Sure Frazier was done but still. Also Foreman would of beat Ali if he fought smart. You can't base a figher off one fight. If you are going to that . Then Ali lost to Doug Jones, Wlad got destroyed by Corrie Sanders, Joe Louis got destroyed by Schmeling, and Tyson got kiss but whipped by Douglas. Do you think any of these fighters would of won the rematch? (Well Louis got his revenge). But anyway Gil helped George sharpen up his punches a little. If Foreman would of did what Gil told him and went in there and stopped him. Foreman would of continued and Gil would of helped him even more.
Gil was totally wrong for George and hurt him big time! The worse thing Gil had George do was shorten his stance and footwork which took all his leverage out of his jab and straight right and caused his formerly text book right uppercut to travel sideways. The first time we noticed how off George had become was against Dino Dennis and it just went down hill from there. The all arm jabs you see in the Lyle and Young bouts were directly because of the stance and when George tried to put his weight into punches he was always off balance from the feet now too close together and under Gil this never improved. Gil was a great guy and boxing trainer-but not for big George.
Do you think the boxing fundamentals Gil tried to instil in him after Zaire, helped him in the comeback in the 90s?
Thats a good question. Gil's objective was too shorten up his hooks when he brought his feet closer together but George couldn't adapt to the needed footwork as when he had the long gait under Sadler, instead he often stumbled or was off balanced. In his comeback though he had the shortened footwork down pat and maybe it was Archie's training that brought that about? As a result though his shorter hooks and left and right uppercuts were what Gil envisioned but couldn't bring about.
Yeah there was always something awkward/not entirely coordinated and exaggerated looking about george's movement in the ring. Maybe too strong for his own body haha
Personally i don't think anything Gil was doing a decade earlier had much of a bearing at all on comeback George. George reinvented himself, mostly due to neccessity (old age, weight, stamina etc etc)
Clancy was probably an excellent addition, Foreman's lack of confidence and desire after Zaire was the problem, as well as the flaws he had all along. His head just wasn't in the right place, which his breakdown after the Young fight shows.
