Did Gunboat Smith deserve a title shot?

You have to consider the challengers that took place in this time period.

July 1912 had Jim Flynn challenging. Smith had just come off two losses to Denver Ed Geyer and Jim Barry. His best win was over Mexican Pete Everett. He did have the Monroe style draw with Johnson, but it wasnt hyped like Monroes was. Quite strange when you consider that there was such a call for a great white hope.

Flynn, on the other hand, had a decent KO streak including the KO Streak including the KO of highly rated Kaufman and the ND with MOrris. There may have been better challengers out there, but Smith wasnt one of them.

The next defence was 19 December 1913. Battling Jim Johnson.
This was where Smith was possibly the no 1 contender and could have easily got his shot. One problem though, the fight took place (and the champion was in) Paris, France. It is a bit hard for Gunboat to get the chance if he wasnt in the same country! If the Langford win was in France, there is no doubt who the challenger would have been. Strange Gunboat didnt really chase the fight.

Johnson had wins/NDs over McVey, Langford, Jeanette. The promotional value was an all black title shot (first ever) and he was the best available challenger that Johnson hadnt already beaten. Gunboat was not a realistic challenger.

Moran. June 1914.

Gunboat must have been one of the best contenders here still, with his win over Pelkey. This is where Gunboat probably had his best and only claim to a shot. He had already beaten Moran, and taken his White heavyweight title. I think it is hard to argue that Gunboat wasnt the big money fight here. In fact it is hard to believe that Johnson wasnt angling for this fight. I dont think it is any coincidence that Gunboat's next fight was against the French hero Georges Carpentier. The winner of that would have been presumably in line for a massive French pay day against Johnson. Only Willard spoilt the party (as did Gunboats loss of form).

All up, i think that there was a small window where Gunboat really could and should have got the title shot.

 

Following his wins over Langford and Arthur Pelkey, I'd say he did.

For a brief window just prior to his loss to Carpenter, he was the clear #1 contender across the board.

 

Like I wrote before for a while he certainly deserved a shot but that window was tiny and not the years Mendoza pointed out. Over most of those years he did not deserve a shot above those thee and perhaps even other fighters. This topic was already discussed plenty on here - mostly between Mendoza and mcvey - and Boilermaker gave a good summary of when Smith really had a shot at the title.
In the end you´ve got to wonder two things: 1. why didn´t the public put more pressure on Johnson to fight Smith during that time, Smith clearly was the best white hw for a while? And 2. why didn´t Smith ty to fose the fight like Johnson did with Burns?
To one, I think Smith was never seen as as good as we do right now by the public then. I´m not an expert but that´s the impression I got from the few I read from back then.
To two, I don´t think Smith fancied his chances himself.
Both just my thoughts, don´t know how valid they are.

 

His win over langford is highly dubious.

 

When Johnson was a contender to Jeffries and ,Burns he bought ringside tickets to their defences and heckled them.
He also had adverts and billboards printed ,demonstrating his willingness to fight them,and their reluctance to fight him.
If Smith thought he was in with a shout against Johnson, why didn't he push for the fight?

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I am never too busy to correct your mistakes Rainman, but please feel free to correct mine,in fact I expressly ask you to point out mistakes in my last post.
Would they compare to your stating that

1 , Smith beat Charley Weinert between 1912 and 1914? WRONG.
They did not fight until 13th of April 1915 the NY Times gave it to Weinert.
They subsequently fought twice more and, Smith lost both of them.


2. Smith beat Levinsky between 1912 and 1914. WRONG.
They fought on the 9th of October 1914 and Levinsky received the NWS over 10rds. In 5 subsequent bouts Smith won 1, and drew 1, he lost the other 3.

NEXT!

 

You can agree that Smith deserved a title shot for a"few months",yet you started this thread with the confident assertion that Smith was the number 1 ,2, or 3 contender ,for 2 and a half years?:huh
How can this be?

 

NEWS FLASH!
YOU CANNOT HAVE A TKO DECISION IN A SPARRING MATCH.
Smith himself stated he put Johnson ," through the ropes". Page 40" In This Corner" Peter Heller in a taped interview, recorded in March 1970.
He NEVER claimed he tko'd him.

 

Why do you keep insisting on saying this was a TKO in a four round bout. It was not. It wasnt even an exhibition bout. It was sparring.

 

I was not aware this fight took place?

I haven't seen it listed anywhere.

 

That's because it wasn't a fight.

I guess Greg Page also TKO'd Mike Tyson.

 

He was already a champion. Of badass nicknames.