Did Hagler Duck Anyone

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Joeywill, Sep 29, 2023.



  1. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Didn't Graham blow his shot by losing to Kalambay in a stay busy fight ? What a strange fight to pick when you're on the verge of a world title shot.
     
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  2. vast

    vast Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No. Hagler was no ducker. He fought everyone straight up no bull.
     
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  3. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    True, but he was also a late subsitite (for Robbie Epps, I think). He was offered up by Manny Steward as a reasonable replacement for Epps on the grounds of being a proven action fighter and the fact that he was Hearns's stablemate. As has already been mentioned, Hagler was in negotiations with Hearns to meet around that time, so it fed into the storyline.
     
  4. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Hagler and Hearns was its own storyline. Blasting out a lesser light from Tommy’s gym (I thought it was Mickey Goodwin, not Epps) did nothing to enhance their battle — a win over Benitez would have done more for sure. And paid more.

    Marvin had a perfect opportunity to face Wilfred and instead wasted a year of his life on Caveman and Fully Obel II.
     
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  5. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You're right. It was Goodwin. Lee. even on short notice, was a better opponent.

    Benitez would certainly have been better, but it probably wasn't going to happen till the second half of '82 given that Wilfred was embroiled in a contractual dispute and was coming off the Duran win on Jan 30 of that year. Between the timing of the fights and the circumstances, he wasn't in a position to face Hagler on the night he wiped out Lee.
     
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  6. BELLERS

    BELLERS Active Member Full Member

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    Lee didn't lose to Sibson.
    Maybe you're getting confused with John Collins. Sibbo beat him in one of his best performances.
     
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  7. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He fought him in his second fight after Collins.
     
  8. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The term 'duck' is a very harsh word to use on Hagler. To begin, he is one of the few fighters that cleared the division - doing the work of the champion - since the days of Sonny Liston. One just needs to see that he beat Bennie Briscoe, Willie Monroe, Bobby Watts, Cyclone Hart, Sugar Ray Seales, Mike Colbert, Kevin Finnegan and Johnny Baldwin. Then, when he beats Minter for the title, he defends against, Antuofermo, Hamsho (twice), Duran, Hearns, Mugabi, Scypion, Sibson, Roldan and Leonard. Oh, man! As has been mentioned, Caveman Lee was a gimme and the two Obel fights were WBA mandates (Hagler was so PO'd that he had to fight him again, that after he KO'd him in the rematch he said, "I hope I never see his ugly face again!") Throughout history there has always been great champs that didn't fight a certain fighter. Sometimes it is a fighter being avoided but in other cases, the fighter just never got around to it. Sure, I would have liked to have seen Hagler fight Benitez and Graham, as has been mentioned. And I also would have liked to have seen him fight Dwight Davison, Curtis Parker and Ayub Kalule. But in Hagler's case, he just didn't get around to it.
     
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  9. Roughhouse

    Roughhouse Member Full Member

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    Ah, I see your point. He could've fit a Benitez fight in that time period, true enough I doubt he even considered Wilfred anything more than a mild consideration to be fair.

    I thought the Opel fight was a Mandatory for one of the sanctioning bodies and he had to take or be stripped.

    The Goodwin/Lee fight I understood was part of the buildup for the Hearns fight in Hagler's mind and he actually stated he thought Manny Steward was using either guy as a "scout" for Hearns. In his mind, I suppose, it was an important fight.
     
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  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The idea that the Lee (or Goodwin) fight was important when neither had done anything to merit a title shot … just because they came from the same gym as Hearns — tell me how that enhanced Hagler-Hearns. Show me where it ever came up in the build to Hagler-Hearns. Nobody on earth said ‘well now that he beat a guy from Tommy’s gym, this fight looks intriguing.’ Hell, nobody outside of a few diehards in Detroit knew who Goodwin or Lee were. Just call it what it was — a meaningless defense against an unqualified challenger.

    As for Obel being a mandatory, so was Juan Roldan for more than a year. Arum/Hagler just kept giving him a nice purse on Marvin’s undercards and a step-aside fee til they figured out MMH would have to fight him after three step-aside undercard spots. It wasn’t so much that Marvin or his camp feared Roldan, just he hadn’t had US exposure and wasn’t marketable … kind of like Obel. Or, exactly like Obel.

    To put Obel against a known American underneath Hagler-Benitez was right out of the Arum/Hagler playbook and would have served to either get Fully knocked off (thus out of the mandatory spot) or at least given US fans a look at him to say (if he beat a contender) that he’s worth watching vs. Hagler. Seems it would have been worth a phone call to at least try it, because Hagler-Benitez would have been Hagler’s first PPV fight and probably his biggest purse to that date.

    Hagler-Obel II, btw, drew a whopping crowd of 2,000.
     
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  11. LWW

    LWW New Member Full Member

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    It wasn't Hagler fault he didn't get a title shot until his 50 pro fight or first Superfight until 83 .
     
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  12. BoB Box

    BoB Box Rollin with the punches Full Member

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    Hagler ducked himself.
    After being cheated from a victory is one thing but when Leonard approached him and said "You Won" messed with Hagler's head to the point he lost the fighting spirit.
    Sure you can say Hagler had dignity and pride and that's why he quit boxing but Imo Leonard snatched Hagler's soul.
     
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  13. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ray ran him clear out of the country all the way to Italy.
     
  14. BoB Box

    BoB Box Rollin with the punches Full Member

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    Its sad but true.
     
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  15. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Magnifico Marvin Hagler?

    At any rate, he was clearly Pasta his prime when he lost to Ray.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2023
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