Did Hagler Really Fight The Wrong Fight Against Duran?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by salsanchezfan, Jan 20, 2020.


  1. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    That was part of it but make no mistake Davey Moore was a highly regarded young champion. He had the talent and the tools to back it up. He lacked experiance but he certainly was a class fighter. 5 time New York Golden Gloves
     
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  2. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I didn't say he was not of any class ,Please don't put words in my mouth I didnt say.
    I said he was a twelve fight novice which he was.
    He was favoured because Duran had lost two of his last four fights,and his two wins were over a journeyman and a Welterweight who hadn't fought for over a year ,and who himself had only won two of his last four fights.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  3. Flash24

    Flash24 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Good points especially on Monzon. But the one I don't agree with is Hagler " needed to be" technical.
    Fighters have fought aggressively technical from the beginning of time. Holmes and Sanchez were very aggressive but fighting from a well balanced and able to get back on the defensive in a milliseconds notice....
    No one is saying Hagler should've waded it in like A Pryor or N.Benn hell bent on the Ko and thus leaving wide holes in their defense, that usually resulted with them getting put on their ass more than they should've because of that recklessness. But fighting aggressively behind the jab, putting great pressure on the opponent, forcing them to retreat , get them out of their comfort zone, works just as well as a right hand from Hearns...... ( well it wouldn't work THAT well) but you get the picture.
    It's the reason why so many fighters not considered "great punchers" had so many ko's no one considered Ali, Sanchez, or R.Leonard great punchers, yet look at their KO percentage.
    Hagler said he learned after the 1st Antefermo fight what could happen when a fight goes the distance. Thus his motto "Destruct and Destroy "was born. But for whatever reasons known only to Hagler himself he could be tricked, or made to fight the wrong fight plan, though he was the ,bigger ,stronger, and more physically gifted fighter at the time of the fight, and he should've been more dominant... It happened with Antefermo 1st fight. It happened with Duran, and of course Leonard. It also happened with some of his other fights, but he avenged them or he managed to win the fight. Of the 3 atg's he fought the only correct fight plan he used was the Hearns fight , which in hindsight was obvious after Leonard intially found the key a few yrs earlier. Pressure Hearns , make him back up, stay on the inside of that jab and right hand, know that your going to take a few, to give a few.
    Hagler initially fought tentatively against Duran,
    And if he didn't push harder later in the fight, there's a chance he could've lost it, though it really wasn't a close fight....... But why leave it open for debate almost 40yrs later?
    And I can damn near guarantee that if they fought a 2nd time, it wouldn't have gone more than 10rds.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  4. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I would merely argue that there was more than enough reason for Hagler to respect Duran's strength and power going into the fight based on what was known at the time. Duran to that point had never been physically overwhelmed before, so one couldn't just blindly assume that because Hagler was bigger that he necessarily had to force the issue and set himself up for one of Duran's many traps.

    Granted, he probably should kept his foot on the pedal a little more in the middle rounds, but I do think the occasion called for a very tactical fight plan.
     
  5. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hagler putting his foot on and off the gas, throughout the fight, seemed inexplicable to me. But, it ultimately didn’t hurt the result, in a fight I think he won comfortably enough.

    A bit of a clinic from Hagler, really.
     
  6. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fair enough responses, well-reasoned, though I do disagree with some things...…

    For starters, I think he did just fine against Vito. He didn't stop the guy, but other than cuts, who did? If Vito didn't bleed, he was going to be in your chili till the end, and was a proven 15-round guy. Hagler hadn't had that level of experience at the distance yet and I think he acquitted himself quite well down the stretch. There was indeed a shift in momentum in the second half in Vito's favor, but he was known for his stamina and ruggedness. I don't deduct points form Hagler for that. It was a reasonably close fight that I thought Hagler won. Not sure what more needs to be said really.

    You also argue that Hagler was never seriously challenged against Duran in what was his first superfight. Well...…….good! That should then be points in his favor, one would think, no?

    Against Leonard, I always got the impression that Hagler was not as skilled in psychological warfare as Leonard and was simply trying to show his disdain or Leonard by trying in some goofy way to demonstrate that he needn't even give a 100% effort in order to beat this guy. It backfired miserably, so check and mate for Leonard, but that's the only one of those I would agree that he was adversely affected by "head games."

    The Hearns fight is proof of his ability to be mentally tough. That was a huge, huge stage and he covered himself in glory.
     
  7. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Addict Full Member

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    YOU EVER NOTICE THAT WHEN DURAN POST LIGHTWEIGHT FIGHTS A FAMOUS FIGHTER AND DOES WELL, I.E. LEO AND H A G, THE FIGHTERS FOUGHT THE WRONG FIGHT AGAINST HIM. NOTROBERTO SOLVED THEIR STYLE. THEY ALWAYS FOUGHT THE WRONG FIGHT. LOLOL
     
  8. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I can't hear you. Can you speak up son. Put some bass in it
     
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  9. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    At the end of the day Hagler's performance was a winning one and that is all that matters. I would go back and watch it again but I cant find a video of that fight where Al Bernstein isnt ruining it for everyone. He even ruined Barkely_Duran. Al would let it be known that Roberto Duran would have to pay him before he would ever call Duran scoring a punch.
     
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  10. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Didn't Leonard and Hagler both beat him?
     
  11. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I like Al and his knowledge, but some of the fights I don't like were the Gil Clancy with Al Bernstein adding in his opinions. Especially their opinion in I think the 12th round of Hearns vs. Kinchen about Tommy. They were wrong and yet they never had to apologize for comments like that or admit they were wrong.
     
  12. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What they say?
     
  13. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Al had a column in KO mag where he said he did not like Roberto Duran at all and considered Hagler the consummate professional.
     
  14. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    if I remember correctly. Gil said something like if I could tell Tommy something I would tell him retire, and Al said " he is just not a top fighter anymore" About Tommy. On one performance (Kinchen) after being knocked out by Barkley. The comments were not thought out. How I remember them might not be exact, but pretty close. I have not seen the fight in a long long time. Years.. So. But I remember my thoughts were how wrong they were. Even fight Olajide in 1990 Tommy was on autopilot and he won easily. He got a draw against Ray and beat Virgil Hill.. He fought another 17 times after Kinchen 14-2-1
     
  15. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    You can hear it in his commentary.
     


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