Did Harold Green take a dive against Rocky Graziano?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by fists of fury, Sep 16, 2015.


  1. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I came across this article in an old copy of Ring Magazine. (February 1991)

    In a feature story, former middleweight contender Harold Green, who fought Graziano 3 times, said that in their third fight (and interestingly the only one Rocky won) he was told to "lay down" by mob guys. According to him, he duly obliged in the third round.
    Nat Fleischer reports: "At 8, he (Green) reached a sitting position but he couldn't rise and as he sat, with tears coming down his cheeks, it was apparent that he would be counted out."

    As referee Ruby Goldstein reached ten, Green sprung to his feet and charged after Graziano, sparking a minor riot.

    At the time the story broke, which was only four months after Graziano's death, it was met with much skepticism from the boxing fraternity. Green remained adamant however, and whatever his motives were, they were not financial. He never asked for a cent for the story.
    He relayed this story to a reporter who sought him out after a long-winded chance meeting that I won't go into here.
    In any event, Green never approached anyone about this story.
    Jake Lamotta, Rocky's boyhood friend did not believe it. "I woulda heard something."

    However a noted figure in boxing circles such as Irving Rudd, who at the time was a press agent for Top Rank, did not dismiss the story.

    Nobody seemed to know for sure, exept a few very select people including Charles Duke, Green's cornerman (then deceased) and Green himself, who claimed that Duke, who had underworld connections, was the one who conveyed the message to lay down, just before Green stepped into the ring.
    Green claimed Rocky knew nothing about it.

    "Rocky was a great fighter" said Green, "And he was one of the nicest guys you ever met."
    "Certainly I regret taking a dive" said Green. "My biggest regret is that I didn't become champion. I'm broke now. I'm a forgotten man. When you're champion they write books and movies about you. You're never forgotten."
     
    fists of fury, Sep 16, 2015
    fists of fury, Sep 16, 2015
    #1
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Fighters are taking dives all the time. It's impossible to know which fights are 100% legit and which ones aren't.
     
    Unforgiven, Sep 16, 2015
    Unforgiven, Sep 16, 2015
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    Fergy likes this.
  3. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    U, I saw all three bouts between Harold Green and Rocky Graziano at
    MSG. Harold Green was a neighbor of mine and his dad worked at the same place as my dad. I saw Green flatten Joey Giardello and he was a very good fighter. as far as the supposed "dive" Green "admitted to taking. Who truly knows.? But I remember the "ko" and Harold Green jumping up from the canvas after the ten count, and charging the Graziano corner...Green waited til his good friend Graziano passed away before alleging he took a dive.
    But the truth is Graziano could flatten anyone with his hand grenade of a right hand. Too bad the only film existing today of Rocky Graziano is after his best days when his 3 absolute wars with Tony Zale took everything out of the both of them...Rocky Graziano before the Zale fights was the most exciting fighter I have ever seen til this day. Not the greatest, but watching young
    Rocky fight was a Digitalis event, yessir...
     
    burt bienstock, Sep 16, 2015
    burt bienstock, Sep 16, 2015
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  4. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I was hoping you'd show up Burt, but never in my wildest dreams did I think you saw all three fights, let alone actually knowing Green himself! Amazing! And thanks for your input; it's highly welcome and greatfully received.
     
    fists of fury, Sep 16, 2015
    fists of fury, Sep 16, 2015
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  5. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    My dad was a friend of Harold Green's dad and raved about Green when he started out as a prelim. He took me to see Harold Green fight a young Canadian sensation named Johnny Greco who promptly flattened Green. wow we were shocked and Johnny Greco became my first boxing "idol". I saw Green fight many times and he was a darn good middleweight, good enough to ko Joey Giardello at Eastern P'ky Arena. The worst beating Harold Green suffered when the "underrated " Marcel Cerdan ko'd Harold at MSG in the second round in 1947...In the 1940s there were multitudes of top fighters
    who were so busy fighting 10-20 bouts a year. A "golden" age...
     
    burt bienstock, Sep 16, 2015
    burt bienstock, Sep 16, 2015
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  6. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Green was a tough, tough guy but Rocky could hit like a ton of bricks if he nailed you....Burt is right though so many good fighters then, era was thick
     
    Bummy Davis, Sep 16, 2015
    Bummy Davis, Sep 16, 2015
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  7. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Ive got the film and its a weird fight. He sure got up quickly after the count, was very distraught, and had to be restrained.
     
    klompton2, Sep 17, 2015
    klompton2, Sep 17, 2015
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  8. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So there maybe was some funky business going on?
     
    fists of fury, Sep 17, 2015
    fists of fury, Sep 17, 2015
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  9. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Something funny was up. He didnt look hurt at all. He got up immediately after the count and then just went nuts. His story was that he was so upset at throwing the fight that he wanted to go after Rocky or whoever he blamed. It kinda looked that way. But those things are so hard to prove and the events like what happened after the count are impossible to determine.
     
    klompton2, Sep 17, 2015
    klompton2, Sep 17, 2015
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  10. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah I hear you. Thanks for your input.
     
    fists of fury, Sep 17, 2015
    fists of fury, Sep 17, 2015
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  11. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    When Rocky Graziano became a famous TV personality because of the Martha Raye comedy show, He got Harold Green a "money gig" tv appearance.
    So there seems to be a friendship between these two old combatants...
     
    burt bienstock, Sep 17, 2015
    burt bienstock, Sep 17, 2015
    #11
  12. Robert Romanofski

    Robert Romanofski New Member Full Member

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    Was up at his apartment once back in 64 and talked boxing with Harold. Apparently Green and Rocky were good friends. He started to chuckled when he told me a story about Rocky and him at Aqueduct Racetrack . Rocky got into an argument with Jackie Gleason and Jackie called Rocky a no-good Guinea *******, Rocky jumped over a row of seats and hit Jackie once and knocked him out cold. Green said that Gleason looked like a beached whale laying there. Then his daughter chimed in and told me that her father fought Graziano three times and was forced to take a dive the third time because they threatened to hurt his family if he didn't. I believed that 100 percent.
     
    Robert Romanofski, Apr 28, 2021
    Robert Romanofski, Apr 28, 2021
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  13. The G-Man

    The G-Man I'm more of a vet. banned Full Member

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    Sounds like its true.
     
    The G-Man, Apr 28, 2021
    The G-Man, Apr 28, 2021
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