Did Jack Johnson draw the colour line?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by L.Everett, Aug 31, 2019.


  1. L.Everett

    L.Everett Member Full Member

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    I've heard people argue that Jack Johnson ducked other black heavyweights (Jeanette, McVea, Langford) during his championship reign because he feared losing and wanted to go down in history as the only black heavyweight champion. Bert Sugar pointed to Johnson's attitude to Joe Louis as evidence of Johnson's arrogance. But is there any evidence that this was the reason Johnson avoided them? Boxing is a business, and two blacks fighting for the world title wasn't a big gate attraction nor would you make much selling the fight film. A Johnson-Langford rematch just wasn't profitable and there was no real reason to make it happen. And his attitude to Louis might have more to do with his relationship with Jack Blackburn and Louis' managers not wanting anything to do with him.
     
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  2. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It’s a combination of many factors:

    1). The lay public wanted to see a white man beat Johnson. The lay public had little interest seeing another black man beat Johnson. Thus fight revenue was much more potentially lucrative with a white challenger.

    2). Black challengers would more than likely be a more difficult fight so why should Johnson pursue a more difficult fight for potentially less (or even the same which was unlikely) money?

    3). Promoters all over the US understood the $ that could be garnered pitting a white challenger against Johnson so why even bother with promoting a fight against a black challenger. A few tried but in the end purse $ fell short giving Johnson no incentive to make such a match. Some fell through via the lack of merit.
     
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  3. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster On the Italian agenda Full Member

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    All of the good white fighters were middleweights or 6 years retired at the time so Johnson seemed to have an easy out to stay at the top wheras he had one of the roughest journeys to the top in heavyweight history. And ofc the racist public wanted to see a white dude knock out Johnson so it was profitable and safe

    However I disagree when you say Johnson had no reason to fight Langford. Langford was the #1 contender, that's reason enough to demand they fight.
     
  4. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    No
    America drew the color line. They had riots after Jefferies. People had lost their lives. The film was banned. White America was foaming at the mouth.
    A Heavyweight Title fight between two black boxers wouldn't have been worth a warm bucket of ****.
     
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  5. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wrong. He already easily beat Langford sending him to the hospital afterwards. He could earn much more fighting even easier, White, opponents which the bulk of the lay public wanted and would pay to see him fight.
     
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  6. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Which promoters wanted to put Johnson against Langford for even a halfway decent purse?
    Not
    Curley
    Rickard
    Coffroth
    The three biggest promoters of the era
    McIntosh signed Johnson to fight Langford and McVey in title defences in Australia,then,after Johnson jumped bail ,rescinded his offer.
    Name one promoter who was willing to give Johnson his asking price of $30,000 a title defence,to fight Langford that Johnson refused to fight for?
    Johnson got $31,500 for beating up Flynn ,a man he had already easily ko'd .Why should he have fought Langford for appreciably less?
    Kaufman was a leading white challenger he was 6'1" 191lbs, Ross was 214lbs, Moran was 203lbs, Flynn was 193lbs.
    If Johnson had defended against Langford ,wouldn't it have been said that he fought a middleweight?
    Johnson drew the green $$$$$$$ line!
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Heck yes he did.

    " When Johnson won the title he drew the color line against his own people " - Joe Jeannette.

    Many offers were made to fight Jeannette, Mcvey and Langford. 30k, 50k, 100k! They never happened, Johnson wanted easier and he got it.

    Johnson pulled out of a signed contract to fight Langford as champion in 1909. For shame.

    The thinking that two black fighters would not draw is BS. They said the same thing for Louis, yet his near biggest purse was Walcott.

    Johnson did face one black man as champion. Jim Battling Johnson, and he was lucky to escape with a draw in a 10 round match.

    Those are the facts.
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Well, Sam Langford was 20 years old and 156 pounds back then according to the best book on him. A far cry from the mature heavyweight that was 170-200. Johnson had a lot of heavyweight experience on him and plenty of weight, yet Langford lasted the distance.

    The best white heavies in retrospect back when Johnson was champion were McCarty, Smith, and Willard. Johnson is 0-1 here. Maybe the McCarty fight could have been made had he lived. Johnson did box a 4 round ex match with Smith and according to the NY times was TKO's when he was down and dazed to the point where his manager stopped the match.

    Why no re-match with Smith?
     
  9. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It’s was an exhibition so a fight for the championship would not be termed a rematch.

    What did Johnson weigh when he fought Langford? There is no record of it.

    Johnson did not fight black contenders because the demand was not there. The lay public wanted to see a white man beat Johnson. This also meant the purse would be smaller. All the more reason to fight white contenders. In the end the ticket buying public decides who fights who aside from very rare situations.