Did Jack Root Deserve A Shot At Vacant Title?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jul 3, 2014.


  1. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yeah I'm pretty sure Walker beat Omaha Jack Davis, Billy Woods, Charles Turner, and others, boxing as Soldier Walker. He wan't great but not a complete novice either.
     
  2. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I know the results, just giving you the general feel at the time. A loss like O'Brien#s didn't disqualify a fighter like it does to-day, look at Burns for example.
    Hart, Root and Johnson were the main three, ant two would be acceptable, Johnson would probably be favoured over either of the other two, but not a terribly unacceptable match-up in my opinion.
    Johnson had lost to Hart who had lost to Root and Gardner. As you say Root and Gardner had split a series but Root had only ever lost to Gardner, had clearly won their last encounter and held other solid wins, most notably over Kid McCoy. Some had Bob Fitz in the mix too.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Hart would seem to be one logical boxer for an eliminator to find a champ,I've said that already
    The McCoy match had some interesting developments in it as Box rec says.
    I think I should have entitled the thread," Did Root Deserve A Shot At The Vacant Title Above Johnson ?"
     
  4. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hart's recent victory over Johnson really put the kibosh on Jack's claim and Root having beaten every man he faced, including Gardner, Hart and McCoy was a pretty obvious call.
    Hindsight says different of course and Hart's first move on claiming the title was to bar "N*****s". I think he knew he wouldn't get a verdict over Johnson again. But to answer your second question, "Yes."
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    :good:good:good
     
  6. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Interestingly Root was a three to one favourite and apparently in the lead when knocked out. Gardner and Johnson challenged the winner from Ringside while Jeffries collected $1,000 as referee compared to a total purse of $5,000!
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jeffries certainly liked coin, he asked an astonomical fee to referee Johnson v Burns.
     
  8. Chuck1052

    Chuck1052 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    After his loss to Hank Griffin during 1901, Jack Johnson didn't lose another bout until his setback to Marvin Hart during 1905 despite being fairly active and facing some good fighters. With such a resume, would Johnson have been denied a shot at the vacant world heavyweight title after losing to Hart if he was white? More to the point, was it fair? Should Joe Louis have been denied a shot at the title solely based on his knockout loss to Max Schmeling despite compiling such a tremendous record up to that time?

    - Chuck Johnston
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The answer is as plain as the colour of his skin.
     
  10. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The probability is that Johnson got "jobbed" against Hart but it was only a few months prior to the Hart-Root affair. If Johnson and Hart rematched for the title, Root with the win over Hart and the seemingly better record of the three would be hard done by. The way it turned out suited to keep a black fighter from the title, sure it was convienient, but at that precise time Johnson was no more intitled to a shot than Hart or Root.
     
  11. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Actually the analogy runs pretty accurate, should Louis have got the shot at Braddock before Schmeling a la Johnson ahead of Hart against Root?
     
  12. Chuck1052

    Chuck1052 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yes, a viable case can be made that Jack Johnson and Joe Louis should have to wait in line for their shots at the world heavyweight title after losing recent bouts, but both certainly remained quite deserving.

    - Chuck Johnston
     
  13. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Immanently reasonable post :good
     
  14. Monogamous STD

    Monogamous STD Ya know, Quasimoto predicted all this. Full Member

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    Maybe. I'm going to look into the author of that article a bit. I don't think Tommy Burns was Italian? I thought his surname was spelled Brusseau. Like French Canadian, not Brusso like an Italian spelling?
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    If Schmeling had gotten his rightful chance against Braddock I think history would have been made because I see him beating Jim and becoming the first man to regain the title.
    I think Johnson had a better claim to a shot than Root and Jack should have fought Hart.

    Here's a thought , supposing he did, and managed to close the show against the Kentuckian,that gives us the real possibility of Jeffries feeling obliged to come back and reclaim his crown for the " White Race".

    Hart fought Root on 3rd of July1905, let us say he fought Johnson instead and Johnson won. Jeffries returns to reclaim the title, the fight to take place in say March 1906 Jeffries would still be only 30 and have been out of the ring for 19 months. The first FOTC would certainly have been a lot more competitive don't you think?