Did James Jeffries retire too soon?

I was wondering how long it would be before this post would be hijacked and used as a stick to beat Johnson,ie A beats B so C who has beaten A must also beat C,BOllocks!, Frazier beats Ali gets decapitated by Foreman ,so Ali must get killed by Foreman too right? except it didnt happen! Talk about imposing your own agenda! Some time ago I pointed out to the "historian ", that Jeffries went the distance with a much smaller Sharkey ,without dropping him ,and that Fitz stopped Sharkey with a body shot,I said this indicated that Jeffries wasnt really a one punch ko artist,"ah but you have to take in to account Jeffries style" was the reply,well Johnsons style was to loaf along doing just enough to take the decision,kos werent important to him.Double standards again from the archived anachronism.

 

Jeffries 4 rounder with Griffin,trumpeted by the"historian" was an exhibition ,and Griffin claimed a draw.the record put forth of Jeffries beating Griffin in 3 rounds,where is the source for this result? Jeffries fought Griffin ONCE in an actual fight,and won by a ko in 14 ,some sources claim 17 rounds.Johnsons record against Griffin is laid out by the "historian",asGriffin 1-0-2 Johnson,WRONG! Griffin beat Johnsonover 20 rounds in 1901 but Johnson drew with Griffin over 15 rounds and twice over 20 rounds ,he is also credited with a ko win over 65 rounds ,but not confirmed,,so by Weasely interpretation ,and being economical with the truth ,we can make records fit our own agenda ie build up Jeffries and tear down Johnson.I say have your own likes and dislikes ,your favourite fighters but dont twist and fabricate to suit your own agenda,as the "historian " clearly does.

 

Jeffries was clearly a great fighter ,he doesnt need a fabricated ,padded record by some one with a hate Johnson complex to build up his reputation .James J Jeffries can stand on his own feet ,without having his privates licked.

 

:happy :happy :happy :happy :happy :happy

 

Many people think that the Johnson-Hart fight was a dubious decision to say the least, so there would be still some leeway for controversy on a possible Jeffries-Johnson title fight in 1905.:good

 

My comments were not aimed at you Mr M but at the biased agenda of another who calls himself a Historian and archivist ,yet sifts through articles to make points ,and conveniently leaves out facts that indicateopposite views ,I replied to your original thread,because I thoght it was an interesting one ,and it is,as you say Johnson has little to do with it ,so why should his record beintroduced into the thread and used to "prove that he was inferior to Jeffries,,as I showed ,because A beats B ,and loses to C ,doesnt mean B will lose to C styles make fights,plus fighters meet at different times in their respective careers,Jeffries for eg had a torrid time with Fitz twice yet Johnson kod Fitz,great result ?no ! Fitz was a shell even an egoist like Johnson admitted as much. If Jeffries had broke with tradition and successfully defended against the best black challengers available ,he would go down as easily a top 10 possibly top 5 champion,I think,Im not condemning him ,he followed the custom,but I do feel that had a huge input in to why he reired while still at his peak.pressure would surely have mounted for him to meet one of them at least,if he had defended against Hart I think he would have won ,he didnt think much of either Burns or Hart.

 

FYI, Jeffries floored Sharkey in both matches. Not that it matters much, but if your goinf to call someone out, it woulf be nice to have some foundation of information before doing so.

Also, Johnson style was to loaf and Ko's were not important to him? Not always. Johnson didn't loaf much vs Burns or Willard did he? Nor did he loaf vs Moran. The only double standards here are the ones you're offering for excuses.

 

I have the clipings. Griffin was floored several times in a 4 round match. These types of matches were very similar to the 3 or 4 round matches in the colored titles. The point to foucs on here McVey is Johnson failed to floor Griffin in three recorded matches, which consisted of 55 total rounds of boxing. Jeffries, a fighter if I recall you did not think hit hard, had no problems scoring the knockdowns.

We agree here.

And this means Griffin record vs Johnson is 1 win, 0 losses, and 2 draws, or 1-0-2 just like I said.

And what does this mean? A 65th round KO over Griffin. I highly doubt this match happened. Any sources McVey?

 

Post should have read Jeffries failed tp stop Sharkey .Im well aware Jeffries floored Sharkey in both matches,the point was ,Fitz had stopped Sharkey twice ,which in45 rounds Jeffries failed to do.

 

Sharkey and some others say Fitz went low in the first match. If Jeffries was not injured, he likely stops Sharkey in the 2nd match. Fitz did score a quick Ko over Sharkey though, which is impressive.

 

If it did happen then it was certainly the fight of the series that meant the most.

 

Johnson had 3 draws with Griffin ,1 over 15rds 2 over 20 as I stated ,some one cant count.,Wether johnson fought Griffin and beat him over 65 rounds I dont know ,I said it was not confirmed,the source is Box rec,where was the source for Jeffries mythical win over Griffin in3 rounds?, as I stated they had one ACTUAL FIGHT ,which Jeffries won ,the other was an exhibition,and the direction of an excellent thread put up by Mr Magoo has been detoured to some how "prove that Jeffries was the superior fighter,not Magoos intention at all!.The question was did JJJ retire too early,well he was at 29 in his prime ,could he have enhanced his legacy ? YES,did he run the risk of putting a defeat on his unblemished record? YES.He stays down the list for ever ,where perhaps he might have been top 5 ,thems the breaks!Excluding Johnson,who hasfeatured in this thread entirely too much,when Jeff retired Sam Mcvey was entering his prime at 25 Joe Jeanette was still in his at 30,Ed Martin was 28 and Sam Langford was 26 ,its possible Jeff might have beaten them all,if he had all the Jack Londons who lick Marcianos bum would be in PUGILISTIC HEAVEN.,THE THING IS HE DIDNT FIGHT THEM SO WE LL NEVER KNOW ,SO YES HE RETIRED TOO EARLY!

 

Sam Langford went on record as wanting nothing to do with Jeffries, although he was willing to take on anybody else in the world at that time. Considering the nature of Lil' Artha's three round blowout loss at the hands of 165 pound Joe Choynski, a Boilermaker title defense against Johnson would have been a no-win proposition for Jeff, economically or sociologically. (Peter Jackson, who I consider to have been a co-world champion, would have been a far more credible and acceptable challenger in a title fight rematch with Corbett.)

Many newspaper accounts of the day suggest that Jeff had nothing more to gain by continuing on, much as was the situation facing Tunney and Marciano. Tunney's defense against Heeney lost money, and then the Great Depression kicked in, leaving Gene completely unaffected financially. Where Marciano was concerned, nobody remained who could generate interest and attention in a title fight with the flamboyance Moore could.

Would Jack Johnson have had any kind of chance to dethrone Jeffries in 1905? Absolutely not. Johnson lacked the firepower necessary to take Hart out. He also needed to take out Young Peter Jackson within 12 rounds, or take the smaller end of the receipts. Johnson failed to get the job done. The 5'6" Jackson weighed 160 pounds.

Jeffries was much stronger and more durable than anybody Johnson had faced to that point in his career, and this would have been a situation where he would have had to knock out the champion in order to win. Make it a 45 rounder, and it would be Johnson who wound up getting stopped, courtesy of fractured ribs. Jeffries dropped, fractured, and busted up Tom Sharkey with his right arm alone. What would happen if Jeffries had two healthy arms to pound on the defensively oriented Johnson with? Johnson probably didn't yet have the offensive capabilities which Corbett initiated in his 23 round classic with Jeff. He might have been able to outbox Jeffries, but that would not have been sufficient for Jack to take the title.