Did James Jeffries retire too soon?

Jeff's best wins are perhaps the first Corbett fight, both Sharkey fights, Fitz 1, and thats about it. Not bad when when you conisider he fouhgt like 20 times.

 

Hey, at least Johnson fought them pre-title. Jeffries never fought the black dynamite at all.:good

 

According to boxrec, yes. But boxrec isn't always right. Many records from the turn of the century are incomplete.

 

So you deny that many boxrec records are inconclusive?

 

Yes Jeffries did give rematches ,he gave one to the 37 year old 172 lb Fitz ,but he waited 3 YEARS TO DO IT,Fitz was 40 when he got his rematch,and his previous fight was 2 YEARS EARLIER, a2 round ko of Sharkey. Corbett also was accomodated from his performance against Jeffries where he boxed the big guys ears off at the age of 34 he only had to wait 3 YEARS,till he was 37.
So what were Jeffries best performances do you think/ His win over a 37 yearold 167pound Fitz who hadnt fought in over 2 YEARS.?
How about his win over the 34 YEAROLD Corbett who had retired once and come back?Between losing the title to Fitz in1897 and challenging Jeffries Corbett had 1 fight a loss by foul to Sharkey in 9 rounds,thats in3 YEARS.
Maybe you think its Jffs win over Ruhlin whose corner threw in the towel at the end of the 5th in their1901 fight ,trouble is Ruhlin had been kod in 6 a year earlier by FITZ.
TOM SHARKEY his 25 round battle with Jeffries1899 is that his best performance?the 6 21/2 215 Jeffries against the 5 8 1/2 183 Sharkey,well at least Sharkey wasnt in his middle 30s or older,but Sharkey had been stretched out by Fitz in1896,in 8 rounds then Wyatt Earp the referee drew his gun and declared FitzShad fouled,BULL****! Sharkey conceding 6 inches in height 32 pounds goes the distance and gives Jeffries the fight of his life,This same Sharkey will be kod twice in the next year,in 15 by Ruhlin and 2 by Fitz.So which is it ?which is Jeffries most impressive victory?Is it his ko of an untrained 37 yearold manwho hasnt had a fight in 2 years or his win over a 34 yearold once retired ex fighter whio hadnt fought in 3 years,or his decision win over a man 6 inches shorter32 lbs lighter?

 

Johnson wasn't any one then.

Didn't he fight Peter Jackson? I think he did.
As for Dempsy, not fighting Willis...it was not Dempsy's fault but Willis's. One time a fight was set up...as a down payment Dempsy got a $25,000 rubber check.

 

You don’t know what you're talking about C.M Clay, though it is obvious where you heart is in this discussion.

As an FYI, Jackson, Armstrong, and Griffin were black dynamite fighters that Jeffries beat prior to winning the title:deal.


You can look it up if you wish. Of course Griffin beat Johnson. Armstrong could punch a bit and wasn't a shrimpy sized heavyweight, which is perhaps why Johnson never risked his colored title vs him.

 

The proof is in books and articles that claim more fights for many fighters than Boxrec suggests.:good

 

Johnson was half-starved against Griffin. He was for most of his fights around that time.

Jackson was really old, Armstrong gave him hell, and Griffin is overrated. Langford, Jeannete, and McVey are far superior to those that Jeff beat.:good

 

Why should Johnson have fought Armstrong? Who did he ever beat?
His best wins areover a 33 yearold Paddy Slavin,who was an alcoholic,a win over Ed Martin who was 18 and having his first pro fight,they later split a pair of fights ,Armstong koing the now 22 year old Martin,some feat ,martin was chinny and kod 8 times.Armstrongs only other win over a fighter of any stature was over Pete Everett who was an in and outer,Armstrong fought Frank Childs 4 times LOSING ALL OF THEM 3 BY KO,Johnson fought Childs TWICE WINNING BOTH ! BY KO,ARmstrong made the bulk of his living as a sparring partner he wasnt in Johnsons class,ARMstrong was kod by CHILDS 3 TIMES,WALTER JOHNSON IN 4,the famous JOE SHEEHY IN 4 and SANDY FERGUSON IN 1 GET REAL!.Ive outlined Jeffries best wins ,with some additional info about the age and inactivity of his cchallengers,which of his wins do you consider the most laudatory? STILL WAITING FOR YOUR REPLY.

 

My post was a rebuttal of Mendozas weasely insinuation thatJohnson avoided Armstrong.The fact that Armstrong lost all 4 of his fights with Childs ,3 by ko ,whilst Johnson beatChilds 2 out of 2 , 1 by ko,plus Armstrong waskod by Walter Johnson a ko victim of Johnson ,and kod by Sandy Ferguson in1 ,another Johnson victim surely shows that Johnson had no reason to fear Armstrong.Before winning the world title Johnson beat the following
Klondike ko14
Klondikeko13
Everett 20
Childsko12
Martin 20
Mcvey 20
Ferguson10
Mcvey 20
Mcvey ko 20
Childs 6
BlackBill ko4
Walter Jonson ko3
Ferguson ko 7
Jeanette 15
Black Bill ko6
Langford15
Jeanette ko 3
Felix ko 1
He cleared out the division BEFORE he won the crown.

 

Why? Well Armstrong was a contender for the colored title back than, and unlike Jeanette and McVey Johnson fought, Armstrong wasn't a novice. Unlike Langford, he was a full heavyweight. And of course he could punch a bit. That is why Johnson should have given Armstrong a crack at his colored title. Convienet of you to leave out Armstrong's two wins over Slavin.

Now if you really want a separate thread on who should have fought who as lineal champ between Jeffries and Johnson, you'll be badly outclassed. Start the thread if you dare.... I WILL BE WATING FOR YOUR REPLY.

 

Do you have reading difficulties?Slavins fights with Armstrong are at the TOP OF MY POST,JOhnson beat Denver Ed Martin for the Black Title in 1903,he defended it that year against Sam Mcveytwice wining both by 20 round dec,THAT YEAR ARMSTRONG WAS KOD IN 1 ROUND BY SANDY FERGUSON,the following year he was KOD IN 4 BY WALTER JOHNSON IN 2ROUNDS,he eliminated himself.You still havent answered my question. Which of jeffries wins Ive outlined do you consider his best?.Ive postedJohnsons wins before he won the title on an earlier reply. As I said befroe your pathalogical dislike of Johnson has clouded your judgement ,that is the only charitable explanation I can give for your consistantly twisting the facts to suit your hate agenda. I provided proof that Jeffries wins were over men who had been inactive,were considerably older ,past their primes and significantly out weighed and out sized.Ive no problem with Jeffries he seems to have been a stolid ,unimaginative ,decent man of few words,rather taciturn ,undeniably a tremendous fighter with fantastic durability,prodigious strength,and courage,and a good good solid punch to go with his granite chin.I do have a problem with "self styled archivists and historians " who are wallowing in a tiny pool of complacency and condescension,clutching paper clippings and referring to them selves as "historians"I dont like you Mendoza,,but thats ok you like yourself more than enough for both of us. Im not a historian ,not an archivist,neither am I an expert,just a boxing fan who hopefully tries to get to the facts without making them fit my personal self glorification agenda.