Did Joe Frazier Duck Sonny Liston?

Liston was exiled to fighting overseas and dropped from the rankings due to his perceived "thrown fight" against Clay. By the time he was back into the ratings he was partying hard (just ask Foreman) and then promptly dropped the fight against Martin. No duck unless you really want to nit-pick - but at the time he was a total exiled non-factor that nobody wanted fighting on any big cards in the States

 

No. The word "ducking" should be applied to not fighting someone there's a case for an obligation to fight, as in being obligated for proving you're the best, or that they're not. Well, their careers clearly don't overlap in a way that fits that scenario.

 

After Sonny stopped Henry Clark in July 1968, he told Howard Cosell that he wanted Jerry Quarry. Until Liston-Clark, Sonny was utterly in the wilderness, a pariah in boxing since Lewiston. But by the time Clark put Liston back on the map, Frazier had already won the NYSAC version of the HW Title, and had made his first defense against Ramos the month before Liston-Clark. Joe's next defense would be against the challenger most might have expected him to try ducking, Bonavena. Smoke took that NYSAC Title over amateur conqueror Mathis. Machen, Doug Jones, Whipperman and Chuvalo were solid pretitle wins for Joe. He didn't need Liston to boost his resume.

No, Joe absolutely did not duck Sonny. He had nothing to gain by stepping in the ring with somebody who had quit twice in back to back HW Title bouts. Now, if Harold Valan had given Patterson the decision over Ellis in September 1968, then a third match between Sonny and Floyd would be a virtual certainty. (Patterson himself made the decision to originally defend against Liston, overruling D'Amato, so I suspect he'd have opted to open his third reign by risking his newly acquired WBA Title against his two time conqueror, or in a third match with JQ.)

 

Joe frazier did not duck sonny liston or floyd patterson but (with hindsight) it would have been great for his resume to have faced them.

 

Ali's opinion on Liston vs. Frazier, Quarry, Ellis, Bonavena, Spencer, etc. "Sonny can lick all them cats!"

(that's a real quote)

 

ali said a lot of things. The truth is there was zero demand for the generation of fightfans at that time to watch a Liston fight because he was seen as a phoney. Listons rep re-invented itself much later with the tyson chic' of the late 1980s. Nobody remembers that sonny listons name was mud for twenty years.

 

I would make David Hayes name mud well before Sonny Listons

 

A high risk for little reward fight.
if Joe won they would say ,"well he beat an old man", if he lost they would say," he can't be much ,losing to an ancient Sonny".For whatever reason ,[I would call it smart management,]Joe missed out on fighting the real bombers of the division, until he ran into George.:vonnecunt

 

You said it well.:good

 

And how do you think a 3rd fight between Floyd and Sonny would have turned out Duodenum?

 

Agreed,

Sonny Liston had more or less been "black balled" from the heavyweight scene in America, while Joe was an up and coming sensation. If the two had really wanted to make the match it could have been done, but there was no pressing need for such a bout. Frazier was beating plenty of quality opponents.

 

Frazier vs. Liston during that time? Frazier by late round stoppage in a good fight

Frazier vs. Patterson during that time? Frazier by late round stoppage. Patterson does well early and even rocks frazier with hooks but Frazier eventually hurts Patterson and takes over.