RC, are these posts from the beginning of the year specifically what you're looking for (including the latter two replies to yourself)? http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8585775&postcount=4 http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8587903&postcount=20 http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8592097&postcount=30 This three page thread where Il Duce asked what would have happened if Harold Valan had correctly awarded the decision to Patterson over Ellis in Stockholm was one where I expected my opinion on Patterson-Liston III to get savaged. Instead, I got to toast in the new year with an assortment of classy, knowledgable and thoughtful posters.:cheers Red, thanks for prompting me to review that thread, one of my favorite experiences this year.:thumbsup
Funny, I just came across a very similar quote from Ali during the HW tournament to replace him. He stated that Frazier could beat anyone in the tournament (Frazier had opted out of it) and Mathis, but added that Sonny Liston would beat them all.
Frazier didn't duck Liston, but i wish he had fought him, Mac Foster & Shavers, to prove his chin to the haters. Since Frazier was dropped 2 times by Bonavena, & 8 times by Foreman, people in the general forum act like he had a glass chin. They say the Klitschkos would KO Frazier early. So all i'm saying is, it would've been nice to see Frazier beat & take some punches from Liston, Shavers & Mac Foster.
Joe Frazier ducked no one. You think he would fight Machen, D. Jones, Chuvalo, Mathis, Bonavena, Quarry, Ellis, Foster, Ali, and Foreman, but not be willing to fight an old Liston or a smaller Patterson? I don't think so.
Mac Foster should have been the one to attempt this, the biggest puncher to peak during Frazier's pre-FOTC reign, but JQ derailed Mac. Lyle and Shavers weren't ready to challenge before the FOTC, but Mac might have gotten Bob Foster's shot if he'd gotten by Jerry.
I've actually taken an interest in Mac Foster lately. Seem like he had potential to make an impact on the division, but perhaps never fully polished up his fight game. Beginning a career at 24-0-0-24 was certainly impressive, even if some of his better opponents like Cleveland Williams were a bit past prime. If nothing else, it was certainly a good win for Quarry.
What? Complete nonsense.Joe Frazier only ever expressed the greatest desire to meet up with the biggest and baddest punchers of his era,and it's not like he had to be dragged into fighting one by the threat of having his title stripped,either. The "smaller" Patterson was arguably the best heavyweight on the planet before his two year hiatus.
Having watched JQ-Mac a number of times, I think it was a monstrous win for Jerry. Mac was known for his left hook coming in, but startled Don Dunphy with the early efficacy of his jab, which reportedly looked awful in training. He smacked Jerry with a crowd gasping one-two, which triggered Jerry into his electrifying fight winning counterstrike. (This provoked one of the most amazing crowd reactions recorded on tape, the groan from the audience when Mac's right slammed into his head, immediately morphing into jet engine screams when Jerry came right back to put it away. For my money, his most electrifying win.) Mac might have been expected to improve from the experience of going the championship distance with Ali in Tokyo, but he was already pushing 30, then didn't fight again for over a year, then went into that Stallings, Bugner Clark tailspin as his weight increased by over 20 pounds. He was younger than Lyle though, and possibly should have kept going well after taking Ali the limit. If Mac had taken the vote of Harry Gibbs over Bugner at Wembley, then maybe he could have continued his way to the 1975 rematch with Ali that Bugner got.
Yeah for the life of me, I don't know how in the hell Mac Foster and Earnie Shavers both recorded losses to a guy like Bob Stallings.
Il Duce hasn't posted since March, and he joined less than a year ago. But if it wasn't for Burt's arrival last year, choosing between him and Bukkake as 2010's ESB newcomer of the year would have been a tough call to make. Terrific contributor.
And in 1965, he handed a young Chuck Wepner his first defeat. Bob Stallings was one of those heavyweights in the mold of Ted Lowry, Bert Whitehurst, Leroy Caldwell, Billy Joiner and George Chaplin, a spoiler and real pain in the ass for anybody on the right date with the proper conditioning and focus. At the tail end of Bob's career, Malcolm "Flash" Gordon previewed his final career main event with Mike Tarasewich, and analyzed that while Stallings was boxing extremely well for his age, Flash didn't expect that he'd be able to defeat Mike by walking him around for ten rounds. Flash was right. Bob didn't beat Tarasewich by walking him around for ten rounds, but by blowing Mike out within the first three minutes! (Later in 1979, Tom Fischer and Renaldo Snipes had to settle for decision wins over Tarasewich.) In a 1966 rematch with 12-0-0 Buster Mathis, he improved on the six round UD he dropped to Buster in 1965 by pushing the big man to a ten round SD. And immediately before taking Mac, he took Lyle the ten round distance. Yet, he was stopped by Middleton, Bodell and Henry Clark. Go figure.
I should have added to my post about Ali commenting on Liston's chances over Frazier that no, Frazier did not duck Liston. The only time Liston's camp could or would have fought Frazier would have been from the summer of 1968 on. However by this time Frazier was already a champion and making defenses against contenders who rated above Liston with the exception of Zygliewicz but even at that point Liston was still working himself back into contention and trying to gain recognition. Had he defeated Martin its possible that he could have gotten a shot at Frazier after the Ellis fight but Sonny died. So no, Frazier did not duck Sonny. Now, the question can easily be asked (and it was believed at the time): Was Sonny ducking the big dogs of the division? Quarry for one tried and tried to get a fight with Liston and the Olympic was willing to promote it but Listons people wanted none of it. Patterson wanted a third match with Liston badly (but its unlikely the money would have been there for it). I think its less a case of Frazier and those guys not calling on Liston, than Liston and his people not being too eager to face the best at that stage in his career for anything less than one last monster payday.
