Did Joe Frazier Duck Sonny Liston?

Sonny himself certainly wanted it, and seemed pretty clear about that at the conclusion of his post fight interview with Cosell after taking out Clark. (His expressed alacrity for taking on Jerry was a stark contrast to Foreman's hesitancy and evasiveness when George was asked about taking on JQ in post fight interviews during the early 1970s.)

7:05:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezTsLHHPNdM[/ame]

 

Jack Quarry and Aileen Eaton had been after Liston to fight Jerry as early as 1966/1967. Thats actually what Liston was referring to at the end of the Clark fight. He had fought Billy Joiner at the Olympic two months previous where once again Eaton and Jack had tried to get Liston to come to terms for a bout the following year (Jerry intended to rest his injured back for several months and then spend the winter fighting a series of tuneups, which he did). They could never get Liston to agree to terms. Even before the Clark fight Liston had turned a deaf ear to Jack and Eileens offers, insted he stayed inactive for a year between 67/68, and took a tuneup against McMurray before coming to the Olympic to face Joiner where he was made another offer (the one referred to in the film).

 

Frazier didn't duck Liston - just like Dempsey didn't duck Langford - its just timing thats all - no biggie

 

I don't think Liston was very up to date with what his managers were doing. Personally I can't see him being afraid of Quarry whose name he did not even remember.

 

If Liston wasn't too keen to face Quarry,[and we don't know he wasn't ] should we cut him some slack for being 38/40 years old to Quarry's 23? Maybe a bit more slack than we would allow a 25 years od Frazier who defended against Ziggy in 1969?:think

 

Liston would have lost to Quarry as did every big puncher who might have gotten a Frazier fight, Shavers, Lyle and Mac Foster. Just when each of them knocked on the door of getting a top ranking and qualifying for a Frazier fight Quarry knocked them back to the end of the line and then twice got stopped by Frazier

 

Also the Ali quote that "Liston would have beat all those cats" was BEFORE he fought Frazier. Ali made it clear many times after that he regarded Frazier above Liston. In his top ten list after he retired he listed Frazier and never listed Liston and in his autobiography he stated of the men he fought " The strongest was George Foreman the scariest was Sonny Liston, the most skilled was Floyd Patterson BUT the roughest and the toughest was Joe Frazier!" That pretty much sums it up

 

I don't know if Frazier ducked Liston or not.
If he was smart he did.

 

I don't think Liston could fight in New York, I think they pulled his license. I remember there was some outcry as to why Sonny was not part of the tournamint to find a replacement for Ali, eventually won by Ellis. Not sure why Sonny was not invited to participate. Would have been interesting if he had been. I don't think Joe ducked him, but, lets face it, no one fights Sonny unless the ratings and the public demand it. He is the kind of guy you pass on. I know that Sonny was offered a fight in Seattle against up and comer Boone Kirkman and turned it down. Nat Fleisher had a real axe to grind against Liston and did not support his post Ali career at all.

 

I think it's rare that a fighter ducks another fighter. It's the managers who do the ducking. That being said, I think that Sonny had enough left in 1968 to utterly destroy Frazier and the other top heavyweights.

 

I think this captures the reality of the time perfectly.

 

This is often forgotten. Liston was not licensed in several major states because of Maine. Liston was small reward, big risk for Frazier ,or indeed any other young, rated contender.
On a personal basis, I doubt Frazier would have entertained the thought of ducking anyone.

 

Frazier was under no obligation to fight Liston.

It is perfectly plausible that he didn’t take the fight, because it was simply never on the cards.

If on the other hand, he was privately afraid of Liston and didn’t wish to fight him, he was well within his rights to make that choice.

 

Not sure about that. Liston's jab may well have shredded Jerry. Lyle, Foster, and Shavers were all inexperienced fighters when Jerry schooled them. Liston was not. No one was going to school Sonny.

 

Go to YouTube and watch Liston vs. George Johnson to see how Sonny handled fighters like Frazier who tried to swarm him. Granted, Johnson did not have the skills of Frazier, but he is the closest we have to such a matchup.