Did Jorge Fernandez Floor Monzon In Their First Sep 1966 Fight?

Appreciate that @surfinghb

This type of research takes time, even in the best of circumstances. Not being a native Spanish speaker or even particularly fluent in Spanish, it becomes a huge task. I was quite fortunate to find this site and pull up the article, fairly quickly, on this occasion.

Of course, I always favor more corroboration than less and there might well be a report that goes out of its way to state that Monzón did not hit the canvas in this fight but, as it stands, I do think it unlikely that Monzón was down in this particular bout.

It would be unusual for a report to mention the knockdown/s for one of the boxers and not give account of the same for the opponent. In addition to the El Litoral report, the emphasis made in the thread I linked to in my previous post -- that is, the implication that Monzón's points win was dubious despite the KD in his favor. -- would also indicate that Monzón scored the only knockdown.

But, as I say, I'd be reasonably happy to conclude Monzón stayed on his feet for Fernández I, unless some quality evidence to the contrary were to be uncovered.

But, I'll be keeping an eye out, either way.

 

• 
  Just throwing another angle into this ongoing thread. I've seen it a number of times over the years where one publication can write a very descriptive summation on a bout, but oddly, leave out something pertinent, such as the writeup below from the Bennie Briscoe v Carlos Salinas bout. How does 2 wire services omit something, yet another recognizes it. Again, just throwing this out there.
  
  "Top-ranked middleweight Bennie Briscoe, seeking another title shot, knocked out Carlos Salinas of Buenos Aires at 2:42 of the 5th round Monday night. The fight, scheduled for 10 rounds, came to a halt as Briscoe, 161 1/2, of Philadelphia, caught his opponent with a short right to the head. The punch was followed with a left hook to the body and Salinas, who also weighed 161 1/2, went down for the full count. As the bout began, both fighters felt each other out but in the 2nd round they brought the crowd to its feet as they slugged it out in the middle of the ring." -United Press International
  
  • Despite no mention of a 4th round knockdown suffered by Briscoe in either report from the AP and UPI, Ring Magazine did report, "Midway into the 4th round, the rugged Argentine caught Bennie on the point of the chin with a good left hook. Briscoe went down but seemed more embarrassed than hurt as he took the mandatory 8-count on his feet."
  • Attendance - 5,096
  • Gate - $25,351

 

Wire service reports can often be treated as filler articles and are edited by newspapers (and even some of today's digital outlets) due to space constraints. An editor might cut or condense parts of the wire story to fit available space, leading to slight variations in content.

However, I can confirm that the UPI wire service did report that Briscoe had been KD'd in the 4th round, as is apparent in the following reproduction of the UPI report:


The Tribune

Scranton, Pennsylvania •
Tue, Jan 30, 1973
Page 15

*****

Briscoe Kayoes Salinas in 5th

This content is protected

*****

I would reason that, in this case, Boxrec have sourced a UPI report from one of the publications that edited the KD out for the reasons mentioned - and, quite likely, many newspapers did the same.

Conversely, I would also wager that most staff writers reporting on the bout gave a fuller account of the action.

 

Yes, I too have seen truncated versions of stories depending on the paper involved. Clearly that was what boxrec has, as you mentioned. I have also seen things go completely awry with a writeup. I think it was the Armando Muniz-Adolph Pruitt fight. I think the wire services stated the fight was neck and neck, but the Boxing Illustrated version said Pruitt was outboxing Muniz all the way until the KO. So who knows who to believe? Unless we see it for ourselves we're at the mercy of a report. It's even worse when its a foreign fighter against a hometowner because then the local writer would lean towards his man. Such as Angel Espada v Clyde Gray in San Juan. I always believed the article in Ring that Espada dominated (written by a Puerto Rican scribe) because I had nothing else to go until the video became available on youtube. Well nothing was further from the truth because I had Gray winning as did many others on here. But in the case of Monzon - Fernandez, you have two Argentines. So what was left out or misreported? Will we ever know?

 

I would suggest that "knowing" - at least, in the absolute sense - is an unrealistic endgame when it comes to the interpretation of historical written records. Skepticism can therefore be healthy, as long as it remains balanced and doesn't dive headlong into analysis paralysis.

One can only work with the evidence they have and apply common sense in their interpretation of the same.


The inquiry in this case is specific to a claim that Monzón had been knocked down by Fernández during their first encounter in '66 (not so much the scoring or whether Monzón deserved the win). So far, any evidence to support that claim has not been found.

Conversely, there is evidence to suggest Monzón scored a knockdown against Fernández during the bout in question. The article describing the fight and the knockdown is not a condensed filler piece and is from a local and reputable source.

I see no reason not to cautiously accept the article as evidence of what happened during the bout, with a view to reassessment in view of any new and reliable evidence being provided.

 

How is Mendoza doing these days?

 

Not claiming this is any kind of final word on the knockdown or anything, but i've just checked my copy of Monzon's interview with Ring in 1987 and he comments on this fight and just mentioned that it was Fernandez that was on the deck.

 

Yes, Sir. Monzon landed a right hand and Fernandez was down, the referee did a slow count (Monzon didn´t go to the neutral corner quick enough) according to some accounts.

The fight happened in Buenos Aires though, you guys provided a good account but one from a Santa Fé newspaper, which could maybe be biased towards Monzon, but it wasn´t since he really did drop Fernandez. I looked for some other accounts though.

This is a first hand account, from a Buenos Aires paper, La Prensa:

"La pelea pudo haberse definido en el cuarto asalto cuando Monzón, más ágil y lúcido, alcanzo a Fernandez con una fortisima derecha a la mandibula. El arbitro, Eduardo Araujo, contó 3 segundos en la lona y 3 de pie a Fernandez, que siguió la lucha manifiestamente "groggy" hasta terminar la vuelta"

My translation: "the fight could have been finished by the fourth round when Monzon, quicker and lucid, caught Fernandez with a big right hand to the jaw. The referee, Eduardo Araujo, counted 3 seconds in the floor and 3 with Fernandez standing up, who continued to fight clearly "groggy" until the end of the round"

https://books.google.com.br/books?id=F_ZDAAAAIBAJ&pg=PA19&dq=carlos+monzon+jorge+fernandez+1966&article_id=5562,715319&hl=pt-BR&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVoaWFp5qDAxXAILkGHVbsAOYQ6AF6BAgEEAI#v=onepage&q=carlos monzon jorge fernandez 1966&f=false