Did Joyce make the right decision sticking with Queensberry?

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Maybe Joyce can come back from this second loss to Zhang, and he was right to stick with Queensberry. But maybe, just maybe, he might be asking himself why his career went from Olympic Silver medalist (where many thought he deserved Gold) to playing third fiddle to Tyson Fury, one chair behind Daniel Dubois – the guy he beat in a crossroads fight.

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Did Joe Joyce make the right decision sticking with Queensberry promotions?
The FOR is somewhat self-explanatory and they are easy to be kept short, and to be fair, as you can see there were many positives.
The AGAINST, I will need to go into a little more detail to fully cover the context of each one.

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1. As a silver medallist-Olympian (some say Gold), turning pro aged 32, Joyce was moved quickly but carefully through the pro rankings.
2. He leapt up the WBO rankings. Queensberry's connections getting him to #1 contender based on wins against Daniel Dubois, Carlos Takam, and Christian Hammer as early as .
3. He built a nice fan base as "The juggernaut" under Queensberry and became a headliner under them in his own right. Even being pushed by BT Sport through TV commercials involving popular TV personality and Countdown assistant Rachel Riley.
4. He even was considered the A-side against another well-known fighter and former champion in Joseph Parker.
5. He won the WBO interim title.
6. He became WBO mandatory.
7. He was riding high and considered by some as the real top contender to both Fury and Usyk.
8. He will have also made some good money headlining PPVs against Joseph Parker, and Zhilei Zhang.
​

So, he achieved a lot under Queensberry, and if the story ends here, a lot more than many pros.

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The immediate aftermath of Dubois v Joyce:

This was meant to a fair fight between the top two British prospects at the time under the same promoter. Multiple belts were heaped upon the line for this one:

• BBBofC British Heavy
• Commonwealth Boxing Council Heavy
• EBU European Heavy (vacant)
• WBC Silver Heavy
• WBO International Heavy

It was a much anticipated, let the best man win kind of fight, with the winner to firmly establish themselves as a contender in the vision, moving onto bigger and better things.

Two problems with that though:

First, in reality - Joyce was not meant to win that fight.
The score cards were surprising (unless a certain someone with connections had a finger on the scales):

John Latham 83-88 (Dubois) Victor Loughlin 87-84 (Joyce) Mark Lyson 85-86 (Dubois)

Second, Frank Warren was openly gutted that Joyce had beaten Dubois. In the post-fight, his focus was on Dubois and he went into damage limitation mode for young Daniel, though “obviously” he was happy for Joyce. (Though I doubt it given he had not only stopped prize asset Daniel through an eye injury, but exposed a lack of heart) ​

The prolonged aftermath of Dubois v Joyce, compare:

The loser Dubois, would be taken down a different route through the WBA rankings.
It was a quick rebuild where he was fed a series of soft touches, culminating in a regular title against Trevor Bryan and with it the WBA mandatory position to Usyk (18 months after losing to Joyce).
To keep him active while waiting for his shot, Queensberry matched him against former cruiserweight, Kevin Lerena, in what was “allegedly” a fixed fight.

The winner Joyce, would find it far harder going.
He was on the shelf for 9 months before being matched with journey man Carlos Takam. He was then on the shelf for another 12 months, as he watched talks breakdown over a eliminator fight with Joseph Parker because Queensberry was insistent on the fall back plan of signing Parker into a multi-fight deal (which Parker didn’t want to do). He then fought Christian Hammer instead, and then less than three months later was in the biggest fight of his career against Joseph Parker.
Joyce put in an incredible performance, stopping Parker emphatically. He was the hottest contender in boxing, with TBRB even ranking him #2 contender, only behind Fury and Usyk. So, all he needs is a warm body or two while he waits for his title shot, right?
To everyone’s surprise he is matched with Zhilei Zhang. This isn’t the Zhang who looked on death’s door against Jerry Forrest. This was a Zhang, who in a very controversial loss, gave the business to boogie-man, Hrgovic. So much so, that he had the iron-jawed Hrgovic looking like he was contemplating his life choices every time he hit him!
For anyone not paying attention, Queensberry just matched Joyce in a tick over fight with one of the hardest hitters in the division, second only to Wilder! An opponent with a top amateur pedigree, who was more skilled than Joyce (both defensively and offensively), bigger than Joyce, and was a southpaw to boot…
He loses, and then with his career on the brink, gets pushed into activating an immediate rematch, and is advised to put on 25 lbs over 6 months (he can’t have had much time for boxing to put that on naturally…)​

The immediate aftermath of Usyk v Dubois and Zhang v Joyce 2, compare:

After Dubois’ loss to Usyk where he took the knee and chose not to beat the count (again), Frank Warren was on the offensive for his prized asset, young Daniel. He would go on a media campaign, from post-fight interview to Talk Sport special, telling anyone who would listen how Daniel had been robbed, and Usyk had cheated. How he wanted Daniel to get a rematch. Going as far as putting in an official complaint to the WBA to try and get the result over-turned.

After Joyce’s KO loss to Zhang. Frank Warren gives this interview, where he basically pulls a Don King - rode in on Joyce, rode out on Zhang:

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Did Joe Joyce make the right decision sticking with Queensberry promotions?

p.s. I'm curious how the British board will see this compared to the General, so I'll stick this poll up on both.

 

Hmm, I'm not so sure. I think a little foresight would have been good. I did like how Queensberry were progressing him with fights like Bryant Jennings - that was perfect matchmaking. But when I was saw Frank's reaction to him beating Dubois, and then the score cards coming out, I thought to myself, he needs to watch his back there.

I don't know if he was being avoided, really. Yeah COVID happened, but The EBU stripped him for fighting an inactive journeyman in Takam instead of Huck. Ortiz was up for a fight had he really wanted it too. Hrgovic was game for the IBF eliminator (and I believe EBU earlier). The WBC tournament was there as well (allegedly). But ultimately he went the WBO route.

Personally, I thought headlining cards against Takam and Hammer was a bit of a joke, but given Joyce signed an extension following the Takam win, he must have been happy enough. Queensberry did get him the Parker fight, which was definitely a great fight.

But really by not going the IBF or WBC route they were putting him at the back of the queue for a title shot (which I thought was meant to be his goal). It really made no sense, unless he thought he was getting a title shot at Fury (Oh, Joe...). Instead, he ended up getting matched with a dangerous opponent like Zhang

 

Ah, okay. fair enough.

I interpreted what you wrote to mean the opposite to that. But re-reading it again, I see what you meant now.

Probably because I heard someone suggesting Joyce was a boogie-man on the YouTube channel Porky's Corner this morning, which I was perplexed by.

I agree with you that they probably weren't willing to either pay out (or take the B-side split in the case of Hrgovic, or WBC route)