Did Liston really throw the 2nd Ali because he was afraid of the black muslims?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MixedMartialLaw, Jul 7, 2021.

  1. MixedMartialLaw

    MixedMartialLaw New Member Full Member

    Jun 30, 2021
    Almost everyone who claims Liston threw that fight say he did so because he was afraid of the "black muslims" who were backing Ali. The question is why would Sonny Liston a man who not only had ties to the mafia but was an outright mob enforcer at points be afraid of a rinky dink cult like the Nation of Islam?

    The mafia had probably 100x whatever power the Nation of Islam had in the 60s when the mob was still at its height. I'm positive Liston could have had the appropriate mob muscle in place behind him to either protect him or exact revenge if the Nation really did try anything.

    Can anyone explain that reasoning then?
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
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  2. Indefatigable

    Indefatigable Active Member banned Full Member

    Mar 6, 2021
    No. He threw it because the penultimate moment of his life arrived & he decided he really didn't give flying **** about boxing or anything else. His spirit died and the last 6 yrs he was as good as the walking dead.
  3. JackSilver

    JackSilver Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jun 24, 2017
    Only one black Muslim he was afraid of that night.The one in the ring with him an I ain’t talking about old man Walcott
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  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

    Apr 3, 2012
    1. Ali dropped him. The punch is right on film.
    2. Ali failed to go to a neutral corner and Walcott completely failed to give a proper count.
    3. Liston got up and they kept fighting.
    4. Walcott waived the fight off over some bull**** about ten seconds.

    The only guy in the ring who didn't do anything wrong was Liston and this never would've gone down as a win for Ali in modern times.
  5. MaxDamage

    MaxDamage Member Full Member

    May 2, 2015
    "Look I dont' care whose fault it wasn't Liston's fault. He did not know what count it was. He intended to arise and he proved it by arising and he did resume fighting." - Cus D' Amato.
  6. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

    Dec 16, 2012
    This is fair. Liston was sick of the threats against him & Ali's antics, but Wolcott never should have heeded Nat Fleisher, who was wrong & had absolutely zero authority there.

    Liston also had a legitimate shoulder injury in the second fight.
    All the doctors who testified about this were not corrupt or liars.
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  7. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Feb 15, 2006
    More likely reasons closer to home.
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Apr 27, 2005
    Second fight?
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  9. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    Jan 8, 2017
    You mean first fight?
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  10. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Pounchin powar calculateur Full Member

    Sep 13, 2012
    Comedy gold
  11. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

    Dec 16, 2012
    Of course I meant the first fight, good catch.
  12. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! Full Member

    Oct 12, 2020
    Walcott was a muslim?
  13. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jul 17, 2009
    Liston was totally befuddled by Ali. Muhammad was a phenomenan that Sonny never even dreamed of coming across. The great intimidator was finally intimidated and he could n't handle it,pure and simple. I'm not talking about the "You hit me and I hit you" kind of intimidation. That sort Liston understood - that sort was Sonny's bread and butter. It was the type of intimidation where Liston was made to look a fool once before and he could feel it start to happen again only worse this time.

    For a point of reference,think of Roberto Duran in his second fight with Sugar Ray Leonard. Duran was n't afraid of Leonard but he was afraid of being made to look a mug.
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  14. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 25, 2014
    You have it a little wrong. It wasn't the Muslims backing Ali.

    A couple months earlier, a few Nation of Islam guys with shotguns stood up in a packed auditorium while Malcom X was giving a speech and blew him away, because Malcolm X had broken with the group and was telling everyone Elijah Muhammad was a fraud and a pedophile.

    And reporters were telling Liston all week that shooters from Malcolm X's followers were coming to Maine to gun down Ali - because he was a high profile follower of Elijah Muhammad and he'd turned his back on Malcolm X and, after Malcolm X was killed, Ali had basically said that's what happens when you speak ill of Elijah Muhammad.

    And reporters were telling Liston they heard the shooters were going to wait until the fight started and spray the ring with bullets ... since that's where they could get the clearest shot - when Ali was under the lights and didn't have anyone but Liston and ref around him.

    And the hockey rink in Lewiston where Ali and Liston were fighting wasn't any bigger of a venue than the place where Malcolm X was successfully gunned down. And the police department there was on high alert.

    And NO ONE was taking them as idle threats. People were getting gunned down in public (including the President a little more than a year earlier) and behind closed doors. The battle within the Nation of Islam was real. Hell, a whole houseful of people were murdered in the basketball player Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's home a few years later, as part of that Nation of Islam battle. And one guy whose wife (I believe) was murdered in that home took a bunch of people hostage as late as the 1970s and demanded Ali and Ali's manager be delivered to him so he could kill them because their group had killed his wife.

    So, it seems odd when you just hear "Liston was afraid of the Muslims" ... but some pretty heavy duty murdering was going on that lasted a decade or more.
  15. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Mar 20, 2013
    They really should have had a third fight
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