Did Louis' contract for Walcott I state that he had to come in below 212 lbs?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ChrisPontius, Jun 14, 2009.


Page 1 of 2
  1. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    278
    Oct 4, 2005
    I just read this. If so, why?
     
    ChrisPontius, Jun 14, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Jun 14, 2009
    #1
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

    37,077
    3,733
    Sep 14, 2005
    Dont tell me you read it in Bert Sugars "Greatest Fights" book. Thats where I read it too. Honestly, if you look at All of Louis fights around that time(including the rematch) he was pretty much coming in at all of those fights at a average 212lb. So if your suggesting Louis was drained, I would argue against it.
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 14, 2009
    SuzieQ49, Jun 14, 2009
    #2
  3. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    278
    Oct 4, 2005
    I'm not arguing anything, i just read it in the Boxing Register (4th edition). Contractual obligations like that could've saved Samuel Peter's career.
     
    ChrisPontius, Jun 14, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Jun 14, 2009
    #3
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,593
    27,264
    Feb 15, 2006
    I find it curious that they would make a stipulation that he came in bellow an arbitrary weight that he was generaly coming in around anyway.
     
    janitor, Jun 14, 2009
    janitor, Jun 14, 2009
    #4
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,017
    48,122
    Mar 21, 2007

    There's a suggestion about this in Ring this month, that the stipulated weight would be different for every fighter, but that there should be a weight limit for each hw.
     
    McGrain, Jun 14, 2009
    McGrain, Jun 14, 2009
    #5
  6. guncho

    guncho next champion! Full Member

    4,963
    514
    Oct 15, 2007
    samuel's should be no more then 240
     
    guncho, Jun 14, 2009
    guncho, Jun 14, 2009
    #6
  7. Rebel-INS

    Rebel-INS Mighty Healthy Full Member

    2,489
    4
    Apr 12, 2008
    Would be great, might stop these fat idiots rolling around the ring.
     
    Rebel-INS, Jun 14, 2009
    Rebel-INS, Jun 14, 2009
    #7
  8. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

    2,090
    84
    Feb 4, 2009
    That story is a load of bull****. Walcott made everyone look bad, didnt have a damn bit to do with Louis being overweight or older. Simple as that.
     
    HomicideHenry, Jun 14, 2009
    HomicideHenry, Jun 14, 2009
    #8
  9. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,714
    3,456
    Jan 6, 2007
    No such thing as a "catchweight" at Hvywt.

    If Willie Pep at 126 lbs K.O.s Louis, he is the champ.
     
    Longhhorn71, Jun 14, 2009
    Longhhorn71, Jun 14, 2009
    #9
  10. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    278
    Oct 4, 2005
    I thought it was kind of weird, too. But what i'm wondering is where this story started.

    It sounds like an excuse for Louis' poor performance, but it must have a foundation somewhere. The fact that it's around does suggest that heavyweights sometimes had a contractual weight obligation? It would make no sense otherwise.
     
    ChrisPontius, Jun 15, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Jun 15, 2009
    #10
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,745
    29,125
    Jun 2, 2006
    Dont know about this ,but Louis came in just under 200lbs for the first Conn fight because he was bothered by being perceived as the bully against the small Conn. Louis said he dried out to make the weight and it severely affected his performance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
    mcvey, Jun 15, 2009
    mcvey, Jun 15, 2009
    #11
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,593
    27,264
    Feb 15, 2006
    230 or 225 would be much better.
     
    janitor, Jun 15, 2009
    janitor, Jun 15, 2009
    #12
  13. DamonD

    DamonD Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,285
    40
    Nov 19, 2004
    I don't think that's a bad idea at all.

    I can see some fighters complaining but generally being out of shape leads to a poor or losing performance anyway, so it should be wise.
     
    DamonD, Jun 15, 2009
    DamonD, Jun 15, 2009
    #13
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    I never read anything that said Louis had to be below a certain weight. However, the first fight had its share of contractual problems before the two entered the ring.

    Walcott's management flat out objected to Donovan being the referee. Donovan was Louis refereed and worked 17 of his fights. Sometimes Donovan's score cards were absolutely corrupt. An example would be Donovan's score card in Louis vs Farr. Donovan only gave Farr 1 round out of 15!

    Walcott's management succeed in protest, and Donovan was replaced with Goldstien who correctly called the first fight for Walcott, but it was not enough as the other two judges sided with Louis.

    Louis was not going to lose on points in the Garden. His management and matchmakers were well connected here.
     
    Mendoza, Jun 15, 2009
    Mendoza, Jun 15, 2009
    #14
  15. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    278
    Oct 4, 2005
    Or it could have been "bad" judging? Especially back then, aggression was scored heavily upon. I remember reading Louis say that what Ali did was not fighting. That is how they saw it through the optics of the '30's.

    The fact that he lost quite wide to Charles, who out-fought him, supports this.

    It would be a great idea to implement for the promoters actually.
    Unless we're talking about Butterbean, promoters profit every bit as much from their boxer being in top shape as the boxers themselves do. Given how much control they have over their fighters, i'm actually surprised that it has not happened yet.


    Edit: I think there are two obstacles in this.

    1. Unhealthy dehydration. You can bet that the Arreola's of this world would still not train properly. To prevent this, i would suggest they weigh in 3 days in advance and another time close before the fight, all at or below the proper limit.

    2. Some boxers would consider it a choice to bulk up and don't want a promoter-limited trainer schedule. I don't think this is too relevant however.
     
    ChrisPontius, Jun 15, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Jun 15, 2009
    #15
Page 1 of 2