Did Louis' contract for Walcott I state that he had to come in below 212 lbs?

It is possible.

Because he'd been out of the ring 15 months since facing Mauriello and maybe the promoters were concerned he'd become fat and wouldn't take Walcott as seriously as he should. They might have worried the press would write that Louis was fat in camp, and hurt the gate. People didn't really rate Walcott as an impressive challenger at that tme, and Louis was known to be past it too, so it's possible.

 

Of his 25 defences only 8 of Louis' were in MSG and only 2 went to decisions.

The 1st Godoy fight was scored as follows
10-5
5-10
10-4-1

Of the 2 who voted for Louis the one giving the most rounds to Godoy was Donovan!
N.B. None of the press voted for Godoy
The NYT gave it 10-5 Louis
The AP gave it 10- 5 Louis
International Wire Service gave it 9-6-1 Louis
The United Press scored it 5-5 a draw
So Referee Donovan gave Godoy more rounds than both the Times and the Associated Press!


The second Louis v Walcott fight was in Yankee Stadium!
Donovan scored the Farr fight
13-1-1 to Louis
The Judges gave it
8-5-2 Louis
9-6 Louis
The AP scored it 8-5-2 Louis
So though all made the Farr fight closer, none scored it for him.
Farr himself never said he won the Louis fight, or deserved the verdict.
Losing all his subsequent fights in the US killed any prospect of a rematch.

Q.If Louis had the referee and judges in the bag in MSG why didn't he have the rematches of his close fights there?
He had close calls against Conn in the 1st fight.
Walcott 1st fight
Godoy 1st fight
The Godoy and Walcott rematches were in Yankee Stadium!
The Conn rematch in the Polo Grounds!

N.B. I must point out that you have not seen either the first Walcott fight ,the first Godoy fight, or the Farr fight in their entirety,only highlights,so you are not qualified to give a definitive opinion on the verdicts of any of the 3 fights.And,certainly not in a valid position to accuse a HOF referee of corruption.If Donovan was still living I've no doubt you would have a hefty libel suit on your hands, but it's convenient,[not to mention safe,] to libel the dead isn't it?
ps The 1st Walcott v Louis fight had no contractual problems what so ever. Lets see your source that Walcott objected to Donovan as the referee for their rematch?
While you are at it, check out how many times Paul Cavalier refereed Walcott in Camden NJ .

 

I don't remember the particulars, but Tony Tubbs was penalized for coming in too heavy for Tyson.

Regarding Louis having to come in below a certain weight, it seems far-fetched. Louis, the reigning champ and popular figure, presumably would've had the upper hand in pre-fight negotiations. Why would he and his management feel that he'd have to meet any weight stipulations, UNLESS his management were afraid that he wouldn't come in in proper condition? Again, it seems far-fetched.

 

Doubt it. The 212 number seems to have come up when Louis and his managers announced the week of the fight that he would weigh in at around 212.

Side note: Bookies were offering even money if anyone bet on Walcott surviving into the fifth round. Even without the benefits of hindsight, that seems like a bad line, considering that Louis was aging and semi-active, and Walcott hadn't been knocked out in almost 8 years.

Edit: Another story mentioned odds 6-5 that Walcott wouldn't come out for the fourth.

And the official odds were 10-1 but some bookies were apparently offering 13-1.

 

This fight was originally planned as a 10 round non-title bout. I don't know if this is true, but it's possible the promoters were worried that with the title not on the line Louis would have no incentive to get in shape and put on a good show.

It doesn't make much sense to me. Louis was reported as weighing 213 for his exhibition with Arturo Godoy in February, so there seems no reason to think he'd come in fat against Walcott.

 

Yes it was to be an exhibition .The promoters were worried Walcott wasn't a good enough draw.Mike Jacobs proposed the 10rd exhibition but the NYAC informed him it would be a real title fight.The original plan at Louis' suggestion was that he defended against Joe Baksi but Baksi turned down the offer and instead went to Stockholm to fight Ollie Tandberg who beat him. The NYAC said anything over 6rds had to be a proper title fight.Louis gave it the thumbs up.Louis had employed Walcott as a sparring partner for Schmeling in1936 but after their first session Walcott abruptly left the camp.
Louis went into camp weighing 218lbs and had a self imposed target of 210lbs.He weighed in at 211lbs drying out and eating sparingly to do so. he said he didn't feel right and was hoping for an early night.
source ,"Joe Louis My Life".
The scoring of the fight was as follows.
Judge Frank Forbes 8-6 1 Louis
Judge Marty Monroe 9-6 Louis
Referee Ruby Goldstein7- 6 - 2 Walcott

 

More character assassination of the dead. !

 

It would have been between Louis and the promoters.
Louis didn't exactly have the upper hand in that relationship.

 

The fight took place in December.

 

I never read anything that said Louis had to be below a certain weight. However, the first fight had its share of contractual problems before the two entered the ring.

Walcott's management flat out objected to Donovan being the referee. Donovan was Louis refereed and worked 17 of his fights. Sometimes Donovan's score cards were absolutely corrupt. An example would be Donovan's score card in Louis vs Farr. Donovan only gave Farr 1 round out of 15!

Walcott's management succeed in protest, and Donovan was replaced with Goldstien who correctly called the first fight for Walcott, but it was not enough as the other two judges sided with Louis.

Louis was not going to lose on points in the Garden. His management and matchmakers were well connected here.

QUOTE="mcvey, post: 19764418, member: 7828"]More character assassination of the dead. ![/QUOTE]


I'm here to illuminate facts and correct false statements, much to your charging.

Watch films! Farr won several rounds, not 1 as the rube Donnavan called. Walcott's camp rightly protested to get Donnavan removed!

As for the film, Walcott is the better in what is shown, clearly. The ending is a revelation. Walcott's corner was in disbelief! Louis had the body language of the loser. The thunderous boo of the decision ( In Joe Louis house at MSG ) was buttressed by 2/3 of those at ringside saying Walcott won it. There you have it.

A pal of mine Monte Cox, who knows about as much as Joe Louis as any historian alive, and had all his films on Louis but one changed his opinion based on the stuff I'm talking about. Now he'll say that Walcott likely won it, but hedges a bit saying Louis age was the factor. Not really, they were the same age. It was Walcott's style and skills. They would always give Louis trouble at any stage of his championship tenure.

 

I'm here to illuminate facts and correct false statements, much to your charging.

Watch films! Farr won several rounds, not 1 as the rube Donnavan called. Walcott's camp rightly protested to get Donnavan removed!

.

As for the film, Walcott is the better in what is shown, clearly. The ending is a revelation. Walcott's corner was in disbelief! Louis had the body language of the loser. The thunderous boo of the decision ( In Joe Louis house at MSG ) was buttressed by 2/3 of those at ringside saying Walcott won it. There you have it.

A pal of mine Monte Cox, who knows about as much as Joe Louis as any historian alive, and had all his films on Louis but one changed his opinion based on the stuff I'm talking about. Now he'll say that Walcott likely won it, but hedges a bit saying Louis age was the factor. Not really, they were the same age. It was Walcott's style and skills. They would always give Louis trouble at any stage of his championship tenure.[/QUOTE]

I want a primary source that Walcott objected to Donovan as the referee .Are you telling me he would not have accepted a title fight for the heavyweight championship if Donovan was the third man? Where is your proof, because it is not in Louis' autobiography!
Provide a primary source for this!
I have all the films on Louis, and I'm not impressed with what I have read of Monte Cox! Louis was in 27 title fights only 8 of them were in MSG. Only 4 of them were refereed by Donovan ,[no surprise as he was a New Yorker!]
Donovan was not the referee or a judge at either of the 2 Walcott fights, and the Farr fight was not at MSG, it was in Yankee Stadium!
PROVIDE PROOF OF YOUR ACCUSATIONS!

 

I want a primary source that Walcott objected to Donovan as the referee .Are you telling me he would not have accepted a title fight for the heavyweight championship if Donovan was the third man? Where is your proof, because it is not in Louis' autobiography!
Provide a primary source for this!
I have all the films on Louis, and I'm not impressed with what I have read of Monte Cox! Louis was in 27 title fights only 8 of them were in MSG. Only 4 of them were refereed by Donovan ,[no surprise as he was a New Yorker!]
Donovan was not the referee or a judge at either of the 2 Walcott fights, and the Farr fight was not at MSG, it was in Yankee Stadium!
PROVIDE PROOF OF YOUR ACCUSATIONS![/QUOTE]

Sorry to butt in but I definitely came across an article yesterday explaining that Walcott’s people objected to Donovan. I’ll try to find it again this weekend. There was a direct quote to the effect that they weren't saying that he was crooked or incompetent but that he’d handled a lot of Louis fights and they think it is time for a change. Louis apparently quipped that Walcott’s own manager could be the ref for all he cared.

 

I want a primary source that Walcott objected to Donovan as the referee .Are you telling me he would not have accepted a title fight for the heavyweight championship if Donovan was the third man? Where is your proof, because it is not in Louis' autobiography!
Provide a primary source for this!
I have all the films on Louis, and I'm not impressed with what I have read of Monte Cox! Louis was in 27 title fights only 8 of them were in MSG. Only 4 of them were refereed by Donovan ,[no surprise as he was a New Yorker!]
Donovan was not the referee or a judge at either of the 2 Walcott fights, and the Farr fight was not at MSG, it was in Yankee Stadium!
PROVIDE PROOF OF YOUR ACCUSATIONS![/QUOTE]
Some of Monte Cox's quotes

"Ali was at his peak/prime in the 1st Frazier fight
-Joe Louis knocks out prime Ali
-Joe Louis knocks out Jack Dempsey
-Mike Tyson knocks out Rocky Marcianio early if they would of fought.
-Lennox Lewis is a top 10 ATG Heavyweight
-Rocky Marciano is NOT a top 10 ATG Heavyweight
-Joe Frazier is NOT a top 10 ATG Heavyweight
-Ranks Riddick Bowe higher on a HW ATG list than Evander Holyfield!" Monte Cox on Jack Johnson ,note the height!

Jack Johnson
Date of Birth(Age) 1878.03.31
Rated at Heavyweight
W-L-D W73+L13+D10=102
Height 6 feet 2 inches
Trainer Henry (Pop) Blanken
ps Johnson was 6 foot and one quarter inch tall.

Bottom line. You've given ONE example where Donovan's score card was out of synch with the others scoring, that does justify your statement that,
"sometimes Donovan's scorecards were absolutely corrupt!"
Where are the other examples of him," swimming against the tide?"
In rebuttal of my verified facts you provided no proof whatsoever!
Par for the course as far as you are concerned!
Of all the heavyweight champions ,none were less in need of a corrupt referee or biased judges than Joe Louis !
You have repeated a cowardly libellous smear on men not here to defend themselves.
Just about your mark really!