Did Marciano train down to the 180s?

No, I think he told the truth. Cus didn't think Floyd was ready and it was only a matter of time before Rocky would lose to someone or vacate the title. Floyd was only 21 when Marciano announced his retirement. Looking at it objectively, it had made sense for him to wait Rocky out. Time was Floyd's friend. Had Marciano preferred to extend his career, Floyd could've fought him at 23 and probably won against a declining 35-year-old champ. Either way, at age 21 or 23, I think Patterson stood a good chance at unseating him. By the time he fought Moore, Rocky was aging visibly. Rocky himself later said he thought he was good for just one or two more fights.

 

If Rocky roided he probably still wouldn't eclipse 205 as a fighter because of his bone structure. Anything bigger he would be more of a bodybuilder and less of a boxer because he was so squat. Tua has a bigger skeletal structure and therefore more ability to not only have natural size, pack on size through supplements and weightlifting but also move that size effectively. Marciano had a smaller skeletal structure and worse muscle genetics. I have anecdotally seen people roid pretty hard and still not have good physiques or be able to pack on a ton of size--or most of it was bloated-up garbage size they would never get into a ring with. To assume that the only difference between David Tua and Rocky Marciano is weight training and steroids is a bit reductive.

By the logic at hand, Lamont Peterson should have been an awesome middleweight because he had access to steroids and was a natural 135er or whatever. But he actually just roided and didn't move his weight at all. So that tells you that PEDs are used for a lot of things and you can use them while knowing your ideal body type for fighting.

But back to Tua/Rocky:
If you reduce them to just skeletal or genetic measurements, then Tua is a much bigger man. Certain muscle groups are not as affected by late introduction of exogenous hormones such as forearm, calves, and neck.

Wrists
Tua: 8.5"
Marciano: 7.5"

Calves:
Tua: 19.75" (legit huge calves and a lot of roid guys can't get their calves to grow worth a ****)
Marciano: 14.75"

Neck:
Tua: 19"
Marciano: 16.75"

Forearms:
Tua: 15"
Marciano: 12"

For reference, 5 inches on calves, 3 inches on forearms indicate HUGE skeletal differences. The wrists show that even stripped of all flesh, Tua just has a bigger skeleton. Which is obvious as well if you look at them. If you feed Tua well, he may not have been as jacked as in the 90s era of dat celltech, but he would have still been easily 210+ and a hoss of a man compared to The Rock. Roided rocky would probably be smaller than natural Tua. It is nearly impossible to roid up 5 inches of calves if you know how to train and are training consistently before you begin use.

 

I've literally seen people here unironically post how Rocky would have been over 6' in the modern era due to getting better nutrition as a kid. Some of these Rocky diehards really think he was the ubermench.

 

For those of you who were not around for previous threads and missed being dazzled by my erudite research, here are excerpts from articles printed during Marciano training camps. Surely the stuff of monklike devotion.


"He ran 3-5 miles per day and ate plenty of food. His big workout apparently lasted around 90 minutes (from 3-4:30)."

from Harold Kaese, “In a Game That’s Noted for Its Punks, Phoneys, Rocky Stands for Class, Boston Globe (Sept. 20, 1952), p.7


“[…] Marciano is satisfied if he has a few close friends and a pantry near him.

He is eating all the way, although Al Colombo, a pal, thinks Rocky’s knife-and-fork exercises have been exaggerated.

“He’s over-rated,” said Colombo, adding alertly, I mean as an eater, not a fighter.”

Colombo’s revelation that Marciano does not eat eight lamb chops for breakfast but only two or three was sworn to by Alfred Renault, the camp’s chef. […]

Marciano, who only skipped rope today, said he was not nervous, “only a little tense like I always am before a fight.” This he admitted, was his big opportunity and concluded, “I don’t intend to lose it.”

Each day for a month, Marciano has got up at 7 a.m. He then has a cup of tea (sugar and lemon) and usually runs between three and five miles.

At 8:30, it is a breakfast of fruit, cereal, two soft-boiled eggs, lamb chops, toast, and more tea.

He walks and naps until noon, when he has some tea.

Then he naps until his big workout at 3 p.m. After 4:30 he naps until dinner time at 5:30; after which he walks, plays ping pong, reads, or listens to the radio. At 8:30 he may have an apple or pear, and goes to bed.

According to Reinault, the meat is usually steak or roast beef—rare. Lamb, veal, and a little chicken for variety. Baked potatoes, green vegetables, and plenty of salads with oil and vinegar dressing. Oh yes—tea.

No Italian foods. No pork. No pastry. No ice cream.

Reinault, who came to this country from Germany in 1923, also cooked here for Joey Maxim before the Robinson fight. The difference he said, was “Maxim had to lose weight, so he ate less and ran more than this fellow.”

Marciano has not been training for a race. He wants to win only one letter against Walcott—in boxing, not track.”

Following details are culled from an article by Pete Couros who hung with Marciano during his camp before the second Charles fight. This was printed in the Omaha Herald on June 13 but took place at least one month before.

7AM - 6 miles run completed in over an hour. (That is pretty damn slow for folks who don't know.)

Hot tea, 5 eggs, dry cereal, lamb chops, toasted rolls

The next takes place over one hour:

5 minutes shadowboxing.
3 rounds sparring, 1 round with a different partner.
Heavybag work

Eat Some Steak!

Ping-Pong with Charley!

TV time!

9:30... Time for more sleep.

That is simply inhuman. No mere mortal could ever finish a day of such a regimen let alone a complete training camp.

 

What some people here apparently think a 2000s Rocky Marcianio would look like

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One fool told me Rocky ran 15miles daily up hill and hit the 300lbs bag for 30 rds after sparring.

You cannot have a rational discussion with people like that,and the more you point out the absurdities of their arguments, they more they accuse you of being a hater,not understanding boxing ,or appreciating his marvellous defensive moves.

 

the bag was 350lb stop hating

 

Tua would probably weigh less because weight training is a thing nowadays and it wasn't really back then. But those Samoan types are just built different. The're like walking refrigerators.

 

I stand corrected! lol

 

Ty for the honest and correct answer

 

I don't understand the premise of this thread. So in between fights Rocky was about 15 lbs over his fight night weight, as most fighters his size are, at least. So what't the big reveal? Don't get this thread at all.

As for how a 'roided Marciano would look like, I remember Tommy Morrisson being quoted as saying he would have been 190 lbs without steroids. So he'd be about Rocky's weight, if that is correct. He was a fair bit taller, though, so had more inches to put the weight on.

 

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Jesus, how much more do you expect him to sacrifice for his craft!?

 

So would a Rocky who lifted weights and 'roided be 220+ lbs? Possibly. Steroids help you put on a lot of muscle, even for people who aren't training, and today there's HGH and whatnot as well. Not saying that all or even most fighters take them, but it's out there.

 

The generation of young children during the depression was shorter on average than the one before and the one after, so it's not impossible that he would have been taller had he been born in the post war era. Don't know if he was poor growing up, though.

 

But he would not be 185lbs like Marciano would he? At 21 he was over 200lbs.