Did Margarito beat the prime out of Pacquiao?

I'm interested to hear the perspective of a classic poster like yourself on this topic. Pacquiao after the Margarito fight was going on 32. Which is actually kind of getting old for a blown up superbantamweight. 32 in the lighter weights is no spring chicken where speed is important. In HW its actually rather young though.

He had been knocked out twice as a malnourished Flyweight. Been in a violent fight with Ledwaba and MAB. Had been in 2 punishing fights with Marquez. Was in 2 absolute wars with Morales, particularly the first fight, it was just brutal. Had been in a hellacious war with Cotto and got his ear drum busted and came through hell to walk him down. Cotto was far bigger by the way. And then fought Margarito who was so big that he made Pac look like he was 12 years old. And during the few times he landed he doubled over Pac. Broke his ribs and sent him to the hospital.

So with all that said is it not unreasonable or rather is not very likely that Pacquiao was headed for a decline after the Margarito fight?

Are there any examples of a 32 year fighter in the lower weight classes taking that much accumulated punishment throughout their career? While still remaining in their prime? I'd imagine they're would be quite few.

Even a guy like Hagler who was in 2 violent wars in his early 30s against Hearns and Mugabi looked completely different after that. Against Leonard, post wars and starting to get older in chronological age he looked worn down.

Doesnt a man no matter they're genetics and toughness have a breaking point?

 

/thread

 

At the time the perception was the opposite. He was seen as at his absolute peak. Someone who was too drained at the lower weights. Someone who was basically the same FW fighter, just cutting less weight for the weigh in.

Pac wasn't considered to be on any kind of decline. The Cotto victory was incredible and the Hatton victory was amazing also.

The Margarito fight was a farce at the time and I think no different now.

Any guy who relies on speed and ferocious aggression will always fade as they get older. Age has caught up with Pacman, not Margarito.

I know he's picked up some losses now but look at the manner of them.

Bradley was a very clear Victory, Horn was an arguable victory and the loss to JMM was the best he'd actually fought against Marquez, but he got countered and smoked.

The only bad performance of this time was the third fight with JMM, that's when people begun to question if it was age or if it was a style clash.

The Floyd fight would always be tough for him but he didn't look old that night, he just couldn't consistently get to Floyd and even that fight was competitive.

 

I agree at the the turn of the new decade the perception was that Pacquiao was at his peak. And I'd agree he was in his general peak. It was generally regarded by most back then that the more controlled, measured, less explosive and powerful WW version of Pac was an improvement over the less refined more destructive Featherweight version.

But now in retrospect years later things have shifted. Hardcore fans and media are considering that Fearherweight Pac was the better version all along. First he wasnt outsized as much. And his competition was far stronger. While Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, etc. Are good fighters they are at least 2 or 3 notches below MAB, JMM and Morales.

Look at Pacquiaos destruction of MAB. That's honestly the best boxing performance of the last 20 years. Nobody since then has blown up a fighter of that quality in their prime or close to it since. And to be honest nobody has even really come close to it.

So I think the pendulum has actually shifted. Pac was a still a superb fighter in 2009 and 2010. But he was outsized and didn't feature the same destructive explosiveness. And now many actually believe that Pacs actual best days were in the lower weights.

 

I'd say MAB was the start of his prime. He was incredible that night. His prime lasted until the third JMM fight imo.

 

I would largely agree I'd say it lasted until the Margarito fight personally.

Would you say it's fair to say that MAB fight represented his physical peak and beginning of his prime? and that towards the turn of the decade a less explosive, but more polished version of Pac had emerged?

Its debatable as to what version of Pac was better, but personally I'd say the younger, whirlwind of the lower weights. But can see the argument for the more refined Pac.

 

Yeah, because it's hard to breathe with even the smallest fracture in your rib...

That was a one sided ass beating that only changed the career trajectory of one participant.

 

I think Cotto was his absolute pinnacle tbh. He was incredible that night, absolute breathtaking.

Margarito didn't show any decline in him as a fighter, he treated him like a punch bag and barely missed a punch all night, he just couldn't knock him out because he was fighting a much bigger man.

 

I think it coincided with his age and decline in terms of his physical prime. Then with KO6, which changed his do or die mentally combined with his further physical decline, we then have a physically reduced version of Pac but yet gained a much more cerebral Pac.

 

Pac fought 2 ATGs at 126 pounds. He destroyed one of them. Had a draw with another. Fought 2 ATGs at 130 and lost narrowly to one then knocked him out twice. And then narrowly beat the other. Quite a good record against true greats.

At 147 he made an ATG quit on his stool. And won a decision over another ATG. And lost to an ATG. And got KTFO by an ATG. A far worse showing against ATG at higher weights. And all 4 of the ATG at higher weights were past their prime. Mosley, DLH, Marquez, FMJ. All over the hill.

In my opinion he clearly had more success against great fighters the lower the weight.

 

To be fair, his campaign at 147 could be considered a second career. And given his age in the second run, he was pretty old too by the time the KO happened.

 

In my opinion he looked at his best between 2003 and 2011.

 

I like him best at 122-30, understanding that he was still unrefined at 122. But he really could impose himself at that weight.

He became a less gifted, yet more polished fighter as he moved up. Better defense, more judicious punching, etc., and I give him and Roach a lot of credit for that. But as with Mayweather, you have to look at this lower weight performances to see him at his physical best.

 

Fair post. For me I'd say it's clear he had more power and speed in the early days.

 

The Pacquiao who lit up MAB didn't look quicker or more powerful than the Pacquiao who lit up Cotto.

Throughout these 8 years he was always a 135-145 pound fighter, he just cut less weight and his opponents got bigger and bigger.

Would the Pacquiao who beat MAB have beaten Cotto? I dunno.