Did Marvin Hagler dare to be great?

Sorry to be a pain.
Can you put up the whole question again please and I will answer.
Apologies

Thanks

 

The fighters that you listed previously that you favor over Hearns at middleweight. Which of those would you favor over Hill?

 

And what exactly is your point here concerning Hearns or Hill?

 

He had chances to move up to light heavy, but did he dare to be great at 160? He gave way to much respect to Duran, a former lightweight who went the distance with him and pretty much gave away the first four rounds to Leonard, costing him the fight.

 

oh yes it was fine for Hagler to stay at middlweight. but no Golovkin has to move up two divisions and face Kovalev and Ward lol!

 

Hagler existed in a stronger MW era than today.
He dared to be great by accepting great fights with great opponents.
Hagler failed because Leonard did to him what Canelo, Charlo, or Lara would do to Golovkin.

 

Exactly as it is written

Some fighters are far more impressive at certain weights than they are others. For example J Taylor at MW beat Hopkins, Joppy etc but at SMW didnt make an impact at all. Years later he drops back to MW and wins a world title.
G Johnson was not a top SMW, but at LHW he became the champ. He dropped back to SMW and wasnt as effective.
Pascal didnt do much at SMW and had not looked impressive but at LHW became the champ.
A more modern example is with A Broner who wasnt as effective at WW but has gone back to SLW.

Certain weight divisions often dont work for certain fighters

So with Hearns/Hill I think Hearns was more durable at the higher weight of LHW and his frame was strong and comfy at LHW as he got older. At MW and WW he had been stopped where at LHW he wasnt. I would guess although not making it as one of his main divisions that Hearns was a greater LHW than MW

 

Hearns was stopped at WW by an atg there. He was stopped by an atg at middleweight. He never fought a fighter on the level of those 2 ever again. Ever. And he was also stopped at middleweight by a fellow he was out boxing until the time of the stoppage, but was decisioned by a worse version of the same fellow (who was past it at 175) a few years later. He most certainly was not as good as a lightheavyweight as he was a middleweight. You are the only person that I'm familiar with ever to write such nonsense.

 

Hagler fought in the era where boxers weighed in a few HOURS before the fight, and they tended to enter the ring and fight UNDER the weight limit in the division they were competing in.

Today, fighters weigh in 36 hours before a fight, and they enter the ring THREE WEIGHT divisions heavier than the one they are supposed to be fighting.

So, if we're being truthful, NOBODY IS MOVING UP in weight. They just aren't DRYING OUT as much for their weigh-ins.

Broner, for example, won belts at 130, 135 and 147, I believe, and if you go back and look at the telecasts when they asked him to step on the scale just before he stepped in the ring, he probably weighed anywhere from 145 to 150 for all of them. He didn't move "up" anywhere. He just doesn't dry out to 130 or 135 anymore. He's basically looked the same for all his fights in every division, because he actually enters the ring weighing about the same for all of them.

Hagler spent his whole career at middleweight because HE WAS a middleweight. He entered the ring and threw punches weighing less than 160 pounds. (Hell, Tim Bradley weighs more on fight night than Hagler did when he actually stepped in the ring.)

Back when Alexis Arguello and Wilfred Benitez won titles in their THIRD divisions, they were only like the fourth and fifth (or fifth and sixth) fighters to do that IN ALL OF BOXING HISTORY. Because you actually had to MOVE UP to do it.

Now, people win titles in three divisions about as often as they take a cr@p ... because they don't have to fight at the weight they weigh in at. Most of them are chugging water the second they get off the scale because they are so dried out. None of them could actually enter the ring and fight for 12 rounds at the weight they weigh in at.

That's why moving up and winning a title was so rare when they had same-day weigh ins ... because you actually had to step in the ring and win a belt weighing under the limit ... and why it became commonplace after that WHEN THEY DIDN'T have to enter the ring at those weights.

So people shouldn't bash Hagler for that. Of all the champs in all the divisions in boxing history before Hagler, only four or five managed to win titles in more than two divisions.

 

Notice how Broner basically looks the same size in the ring for his title fights at 130, 135 and 147. He basically entered the ring at the same weight for all three.

Broner Escobedo
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-A4Fwi2saF...68/tbZw4DkpzU4/s640/Broner-eSCOBEDO-Hogan.jpg

Broner Demarco
http://i.lv3.hbo.com/assets/images/...vs-broner/fightaction/fightaction-03-1024.jpg

Broner-Maidana
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Adrien-Broner-Marcos-Maidana.jpg

Back when there were same-day weigh ins, if a guy moved up 17 or 19 pounds, he actually put on the weight and fought in that division.

Here's Duran at 135 against Buchanan and Duran at 154 against Cuevas. Not the same body at all with the added 19 pounds in the ring.

Duran Buchanan
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/32/d5/82/32d582593a9140f1dcea19e04d1fe74c.jpg

Duran Cuevas
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos...-pipino-cuevas-during-the-picture-id164130729

 

Are you drunk? Hagler was the most avoided fighter of his day. Nobody was challenging him to move up anyway. Had he moved up, he would have most likely missed Hearns, Duran, Mugabi, and Leonard.

 

Exactly. And if Hagler was fighting today, he'd be fighting for the welterweight title against Danny Garcia ... because he'd put on 12 or 13 pounds after the weigh in.

When Tim Bradley fought Brandon Rios on HBO a year or so ago for a welterweight title, BOTH entered the ring at 160 pounds.

Nobody said "Why isn't Tim Bradley fighting at light heavyweight?"

 

Once again you have written something that makes little sense. Leonard was a great but lets not pretend at WW he was likely a bigger puncher than many of the CWs that Hearns fought. Or are you really trying to say that?

 

No. I'm not trying to say that. I'm saying Leonard is much better than anyone Tommy ever fought above 160. My point is that after you wrote that Hearns was a better lightheavyweight than a middleweight, my point is that he was stopped by an atg welter (which Tommy is as well, and hes an atg 154 pounder too), and an atg middleweight in Hagler( Tommy isn't an atg middleweight, but a rather good one). Above 160, he never fought a fighter remotely as good as either Leonard or Hagler. His resume at 175 or cruiser is nothing special and he never faced anyone as remotely as good as Leonard or Hagler above middleweight.

 

Leonard would arguably be better than anyone but as I noted about how some fighters are better at certain weights and now you have self pwned as look at how Leonard and Hearns were at SMW when they fought, which shows again what I have said