Nah. Different circumstances in the 2nd fight. 1st off, it was at 12 rounds. If the 1st were 12 rounds, Tommy would have won a decision as he was out boxing Leonard. 2nd, they were both past it in the 2nd. 3rd, they were both above their best weights at that weight in the 2nd. Now let's get this straight. According to you, despite the fact that Tommy is a recognized atg at 147 and 154, which is undeniable, he became a better fighter at 175 than at 160 where he was closer to his optimal weight, because he got more rugged as he grew into his weight, lol ? What about the fact that as he moved up in weight, the level of his competition got worse and worse, lol? The only one here that's being owned is you. Just for the record Leonard would "arguably be better than anyone" else that he fought? I'm curious to see who you might think would be in comparison to Leonard. Well not really.
Stop trying to squirm out of the subject. Regardless of a 12 or 15 round fight, Leonard was put down twice before 12 rounds were completed in the return. I would add when I am saying this that Leonard is possibly my all time favourite boxer but he was put down twice by Hearns in the rematch. It shows how some fighters can be better at different weights. Another good example is G Johnson who was a journeyman at SMW and has lost many times whereas at LHW he became a champ
What a crap post. No surprise there. You astonish me with your rubbish. I am not trying to squirm out of anything. I'm just reading your total, total nonsense. I see you have avoided my point when I questioned that you wrote that Leonard was "arguably" the best fighter Hearns fought. I knew you would. What I find hilarious is, you claim Leonard is probably your all time favorite boxer, but can't even claim outright that he's the best fighter that Tommy fought. He's just "arguably" the best, according to you. Well who else would there be, idiot? You claim that Hearns is a better lightheavyweight than middleweight which is total garbage. There is not one iota of truth or evidence to support that, but you use the example of Glen Johnson as proof. Why? Who knows as the Johnson case has nothing to do with Hearns. If you watched Hearns at middle and at lightheavy, he was clearly slower, had less dynamic footwork and was hitting bigger men at 175, thereby diminishing his power. Are you denying that? Plus the lightheavyweight and cruiserweight divisions were mediocre then. Nobody there was anything special there when Tommy was. As far as Leonard is concerned, 1st off, the 2nd fight was far below the super middleweight limit. 2nd, Leonard was close to prime in their 1st fight. In their 2nd fight, Leonard was way past it, much farther gone than Hearns was. Are you denying that? 2nd, even though Leonard was dropped in the 2nd fight, you are aware that the 2nd fight was closer than the first up to the 12th round, aren't you? Or did you miss that? Did you even watch the fight? If Hearns hadn't gassed after the 12th, he would have won a decision in the first. And at 160, if Marvin Hagler, one of the greatest middleweights ever wasn't there, Tommy would have been middleweight champion. After middleweight, Tommy never fought anyone remotely as good as Leonard or Hagler. But according to you, Tommy was a better lightheavy than middle because you claim it, and you use Glen Johnson as a reason why, lol. Stick to the 168 pounders because you're clueless when it comes to the middles, even your so called favorite Leonard.
Marvelous Marv is the best boxer of all time, pound for pound. He fought in two different styles (offensive juggernaut and defensive slickster) and he fought in both the orthodox stance and the southpaw one. He out-brawled the best brawlers, like Hearns and Minter, and out-boxed the best boxers, like Leonard and Duran. He fought all the best opponents in his weight class. There are only two good reasons to move up in weight: 1) There are no more good opponents left in your weight class. 2) There is a huge money fight in the weight class above yours. Neither of those was the case for Hagler. In fact, his most difficult and famous opponent was in his last fight: Ray Leonard. Hagler beat him without breaking a sweat. The usual (bad) reasons a fighter moves up in weight are the following: 1) To duck a dangerous opponent in his own weight class to fight a more basic and predictable opponent in a higher weight class. 2) He can no longer make weight, due to not eating right and not training regularly. Andre Ward, for example, moved up for one simple reason: to avoid the slick, fast James DeGale. Ward doesn't have the power to hurt DeGale, and DeGale is both faster and more powerful than Ward. So Andre opted to move up in weight and fight three bums in preparation for the relatively slow Sergiey Kovalev. Ward knew he couldn't actually deserve a win over Kovalev, but he knew his rich promotor would take care of the judges. But DeGale would have knocked Ward out, so Ward picked the guy he knew he could go the distance with. (Ward has faster feet than Kovalev, and was able to run away and go the distance, whereas DeGale would have chased him and destroyed him in a matter of minutes). Hagler stayed at MW for all the right reasons. Ward moved up as a blatant duck. And that was after he had ducked Lucian Bute, who was ranked in Ring Magazine as the n.1 SMW at the time, despite Ward's win over Froch. Other major fighters Ward ducked are Andre Dirrell and George Groves; notice that Ward never fights anyone with speed or slickness.
You're a fool. McCallum moved up to MW in 1988, when Hagler had already retired. And McCallum lost his first fight at MW.
I prefer fighters staying in a division and cleaning house tbh. Golovkin should keep doing what he's doing.
TH would have reigned supreme like GG if weren't for Hagler. Hearns like Lewis never got the the credit from being ko twice in devastating fashion in their prime and coming back to be champion. This showed the mental strength of a champion. FM ducked Paul Willams a cheap version of TH and PW was willing to meet any of MY demands imagine what MY conditions would have put on a fight with TH !!! Hearns has universal respect of fighters like Hagler , Leonard and Tyson and fans world wide for his no prisoners approach to fighting. None of this phoniness of Canelo , Mayweather, Pacquio with this catchweight garbage and whinging PM over FM loss. Hearns never ducked anyone or a challenge and the 3 above could take a leaf from TH on how to act when fighting.
I thought you brought up all the great points in the first half, and then you bring up ward and the reasoning and I begin to think what on earth you are talking about.
Back in the olden days, the MW Champ didn't go directly after the Lt Hvy Champ. Mickey Walker whipped some bigger men; Sam Langford and Bob Fitzsimmons who both carried heavyweight type power could move up and down those weights, but Hagler was basically a perfect MW size. Michael Spinks would be much taller and naturally heavier, and have the Spinx Jinx right hand counter to neutralize Hagler's aggression, just like Spinks did to Dwight Braxton..... once Braxton felt the real power Spinks had.
As it's a boxing forum and you want to talk boxing, I will give it a go... Hagler won his chamionship from Mintor in 1980 and made a bunch of defences through to the end of 1984... At the end of 1984 McCallum won the vacant light-middleweight title against clubfighter Sean Mannion... So, 1985 is now approaching and your Marvin Hagler... You have the chance of a Mega fight with Tommy Hearns for mega-bucks or you can fight some unknown guy who just beat a clubfighter for his vacant title... Who would you fight??? The huge money fight that everyone wants or the newly crowned, unknown light-middleweight champ that will get you pennies in comparison... In 1986 Hagler is now rich and a big star so he decides he is going to fight once a year and he will take someone easy before a scheduled Hearns rematch. (The rematch never happens because Hagler broke his nose before the Mugabi fight and everything had to be rescheduled and the reschedule totally screwed Tommy)... He picks Mugabi who has 25 wins all by knockout and the fans are going crazy for him... During 1986 McCallum fights abysmal opposition apart from Julian Jackson and he is still only known to true boxing fans and nobody outside of boxing knows or gives a **** about him. So, who should Hagler fight, the beast the fans crave to see him fight, for a pretty big payday or McCallum for no pay day... We now move onto 1987. Hagler is supposed to fight Hearns in a Big Money rematch but due to rescheduling of fights because of Hagler breaking his nose in training there are now whispers that Sugar Ray wants to come back... Bingo, Bango, Bongo, Sugar Ray announces his comeback for HUGE money and Hearns gets the HUGE SHAFT!!! So, who should Hagler fight??? Sugar Ray for the biggest money in boxing history or Mike McCallum who is still unknown but is starting to get a following and a good name.... My point is, McCallum's coming out party that started to put him on the map was his one punch destruction of Donald Curry that happened on the 18 July 1987... This was 3 months AFTER the Hagler/Sugar Ray fight... At what point if you were Hagler during this time period would you have fought McCallum, keeping in mind he had already fought unknown killers before becoming champ such as Boogaloo Watts, Willie Munroe, Cyclone Hart and even Bad Bennie Brisco in their lions den of Philadelphia... I'm sure he had his fill of fighting good, unkown fighters for pennies and decided to go with the mega bucks instead... I do know were you are coming from wth McCallum as the Bodysnatcher ended up being a great fighter and he would have probably given Hagler problems but McCallum only made it a bit big AFTER Hagler was done... The timing was all wrong for those two to meet... And here is some history for you. If Hagler was going to fight any young up and comer in 1985 or 1986, it would never have been McCallum, it would have been Don Curry... He was the new poster boy for boxing and everyone loved him and he was expected to be the next huge star... There was talk of Don fighting Marvin at some point as he was popular and battering some good fighters but, he decided to drain to Welterweight one last time for an easy payday against Honeygan, turned up like one of the walking dead and took a pasting... The rest is history...
To expect Hagler to go up to LHW and take on Mike Spinks who was a stone killer at the weight is a bridge too far, imho. Hagler wasn't even a particularly big MW.
Not sure what you dont think I am avoiding? I would agree that Leonard is likely the greatest fighter Hearns fought but . I havent used G Johnson as a case for Hearns but gave an example of how some fighters are better at certain weights than other weights and schooled you with the example of Hearns/Leonard 2. Now I will do so again. Tell me what was Hearns best MW win and what was his best LHW win. You got it now? I doubt it and im sure there will be another long squirm out reply
Wow. What another crap post. On top of that you're a liar as well. You've schooled me on nothing concerning Leonard Hearns 2. If anything. I schooled you as their 2nd fight was closer than their 1st going into the 12th round. Plus it was simple to see Leonard was much farther gone than Tommy was in their 2nd. Are you denying those facts? Have you ever even seen the fights because according to your posts, it would appear you havent. Wtf have I "squirmed" out of lol? Of course some fighters are better at different weights, but you're bringing up Glen Johnson has nothing to do with Hearns. Nothing. So your claim is that Tommy, who was an atg 147 and 154 pounder, went from being a real good middleweight to being a better lightheavyweight. What proof do you have? You have yet to present any. None. Not his resume, not his performances, nothing. Not 1 iota of proof. As I've written before which means you must be ignoring it, Tommy's best win at middleweight would probably be Shuler or Roldan as I wouldn't rate Doug DeWitt very highly. Tommy's best 175 pound win would probably be Virgil Hill, the fellow that was beaten up up by Darius and stopped by a Roy Jones body shot in the 4th. In fact Montell Griffen looked much better than Hill did against Jones in Jones Griffen 1. Hill was so good that he couldn't stop 40 something year old shot Donny LaLonde whereas past it almost 20 pounds above his best weight Leonard could stop the prime version lol. You really should stick to 168 because, obviously here, you're way in over your head.
