Did mike ever fight someone who could jab or move as good as douglas?

Did he fight Tillis cant recall? James had a good jab.

 

POWERPUNCHER got it right from the beginning. The blueprint was finally properly EXECUTED by Douglas. Biggs, Tucker, Tubbs...etc. May have had the ability to execute the blueprint but they lacked the commitment to do it. All were trying to hit and not get hit. Not really taking chances. Thomas tried to fight him and hurt him (but didnt have legs) but the rest tried to outbox without taking risks. Douglas took lots of risks.

For example, the uppercut landed by Tucker early in their fight landed flush and althought I do not think Tyson was hurt, his balance was at least compromised. What did Tucker do? Did he jump on him to see what he could get OR did he dance away to his left being content with landing the one shot. When Douglas hit Tyson, he hit him again and challenged Tyson mentally as well as Physically. When Douglas had a chance to tee-off on tyson, he did just that. He didn't spend the fight just trying to move and stay away, he used his physicall attribute advantages to take tyson apart, starting with a stiff, snappy heavyweight jab. The same type of jab that was giving tyson trouble early in the thomas fignt but unlile Thomas, douglas doubled and trippled it in order to limit tysons aggression. Plus douglas had the legs to further throw off tyson's timimg as tyson would make his approached. Douglas's accurate jab made it difficult for tyson to get close to him.

Douglas did an excellent job with spacing as well. When tyson got in range to land against the other guys, they would either attempt to hold him or attempt to flee. When tyson got in range against douglas, douglas would step back and throw either a stiff straight right OR, if tyson was too close, an even stiffer uppercut. Douglas proper use of his height, reach, stiff jab, range keeping movement and weight were too much for tyson. When a fighter has ALL of these advantages AND has the ability to use them AND has the courage to use them, the other fighter is in trouble.

I've said it before on this site: IF DOUGLAS COMES IN WITH THE SAME FRAME OF MIND, HE WOULD BEAT TYSON AGAIN!!! Since that fight both Holyfield and Lewis used the blueprint minus the legs. Tysons legs were not as good in 96' or after so it was not necessary to use the legs aspect of the blueprint. Holyfield and lewis could use the stiff jab AND the mentality to fight tyson rather than run.

 

Early on he did yeah. Tillis gave him his first real test in making the distance.

 

Tucker gave Tyson his toughest defense (pre Buster). Hurt his hand early? Again, Douglas was/is an enigma as Power Puncher said. He was great that night but if that Tyson fought Tucker it would've been diferent story. Out of all the guys from the 80's Tucker's most under rated for me. A prime Holmes whips Mike also.

 

Hey, don't get personal. It's just how we feel. Do you want us to be honest or not? Intelligent and reasonable minds are entitled to disagree. Yes, Douglas had talent and he got himself into wonderful shape and fought a beautiful intelligent fight. But no I don't think he looks that good if Tyson was sharp and motivated, and I don't think Douglas survives to the final bell against a sharp Tyson. Hell, even a slow, lethargic, punching bag Tyson nearly KO'd a Douglas at his best. Holyfield showed in Buster's very next fight how a fight sharp elite fighter can mop the floor with Douglas, and when was the last time you saw Holy stop a guy in only 3 rounds? A normal Tyson would have done the same to Buster and everyone knew it, which is why Douglas was such a huge underdog. If this was the old days, they might have accused Tyson of throwing the fight, Douglas was such a huge underdog.

I distinctly remember reading interviews in the LA Times after that fight with Tyson's sparring partners, including Greg Page (who decked Tyson), Oliver McCall, and Trevor Berbick, and they all said they were beating the **** out of Tyson in sparring. It seems to me that Tyson/King went ahead with the fight anyhow because they thought Douglas was such a mental case that all Tyson had to do was hit him once and he'd find a way to quit. They underestimated and disrespected him, which is a cardinal sin in boxing. And serves Tyson right. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to suddenly put Douglas on a pedestal as some ATG fighter. Right time and right place, and kudos for maximizing his opportunity and getting into the best shape of his life.

 

Agreed.

Tyson moved his head plenty in the early rounds, and slipped a ton of Douglas' punches:

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As for your original post:

Jabbing and moving was just one part of the equation - and perhaps not even the most critical part. Other fighters have attempted to simply "jab and move" on Tyson with little or no success. It was Douglas' other assets that supplemented his jabbing/movement that were the keys to his success - his power and punch variety, his infighting skills, his use of angles, etc. - which meant that even when Tyson was able to close the gap on him, he still wasn't able to have his way with him, unlike the other jabber/mover types.

 

Exactly. :deal

The reason people still scratch there heads and debate why Douglas succeeded where others had failed is because they don't appreciate the more subtle aspects of his gameplan, which others who had attempted similar gameplans had lacked.

Douglas attempted the most well-rounded strategy anyone had ever tried on Tyson, and unlike most of the others, he also had the tools and skillset to pull it off.

Agreed.

Tubbs had a similar fundamental style and some (but not all IMO) of Douglas' speed, but was hindered by his excess bulk and lacked the pop in his punches that Douglas had.

Thomas and Williams were both too stiff and upright, and Thomas especially lacked the punch variety that Douglas had.

Biggs was comparable to Douglas in terms of speed and skill, but he lacked the power - glass-nosed Damiani simply walked through his punches like they were nothing.

IMO, Marvis Frazier is a slightly underrated fighter and was a fairly decent boxer/mover - but again, he was no puncher (plus he never even attempted a punch anyway).

Bruno was a decent technician and had big power, but he was slow, stiff, and upright.

Tillis was similar to Douglas but lesser in every aspect - but even that was enough to give Tyson his roughest fight pre-Douglas.

 

This is also how I see it. Douglas did not allow Tyson to make an impression on him, he kept Tyson out of the fight so much that Tyson went into a shell.

 

:good
I wish this was as widely accepted as Schmelings key to beating Joe Louis. sometimes a good fighter will find the key against a great fighter if he puts it all on the line and has the tools.

 

for those who explain the whole thing with tyson being unprepared, unfocused, sloppy, unmotivated, under-trained etc. ..... the flipside to that is that MOST of Tyson's prime opponents were known to be messed up in some way : past their best, management problems, divorce problems, drug problems, mental problems.

if Tyson's subpar condition made Douglas look better than he was (which i agree it did to some extent) ... what about the likes of Biggs, thomas, Tubbs, spinks, holmes .... didnt there physical, mental, career and personal problems make Tyson look better than he was to begin with ?

 

Douglas on the night he fought Mike was pretty good. I still think he would have lost to many other guys that night including a 1986-1988 Mike Tyson, but his speed made the difference as well as the right hand. Mike for the fight didn't have much of a gameplan, but those rights really took him out of his gameplan, and still he almost had Douglas stopped in round 8.

 

it is true. Had the 1990 Tyson fought the Bonecrusher he fought in 1987, Mike might have been stopped early. For some reason Mike's discipline defensively slipped by 1990. The time off after Spinks hurt him badly. The Bruno fight showed him getting hit more than he would have before. A little like Marvin Hagler when he fought Mugabi. Marvin looked worse and then Ray wanted to fight him.

 

No Rooney and wild life style.