Did mike ever fight someone who could jab or move as good as douglas?

'That version'? The only reason you could possibly claim that was the best Tyson is because he was still undefeated. He looked pretty horrid.

Would that version of Douglas have some success against the best version of Mike? For sure. But he didn't beat the best Tyson. The reason he looked that good is because how Mike showed up.

I don't think Evander would've landed such an easy counter if that Douglas showed up against him either, like Mike in Tokyo he was out of shape, lethargic, and devoid of intelligent application.

An iconic win and still a big upset, but Douglas on that night is often put on some pedestal as a 'great H2H heavy' when the kinda' guys I'd expect him to beat on that performance are the likes of Shavers & Tua, one dimensional plodding sluggers. I think it's embarrassing when posters assume that Mike was the incredible fighter of before in Tokyo and dismiss the rest as 'excuse makers' (I've seen that before as well) I think it's one of the more overrated wins in history.

As aforementioned, still one of the more notable upsets.

 

If Holyfield replaced either Douglas or Tyson on that night he still would have won both fights.

 

Mike seemed a lot more hesitant and reactive than he did in his earlier fights in my opinion. He was waiting for Douglas to make his move before doing anything. Mike was always a bit of a counter puncher, but in the Douglas fight he seemed like he would only do something once he saw Buster make a move rather than pressing the action as much as he usually would. Buster did well to instigate this by being really positive and not letting Mike take the initiative much. I think Mike could do a lot better than he did though, so it is also down to a poorly trained Tyson.

More counter movement than counter punching in this fight. Whether that was more down to an excellent Douglas performance or a terrible Mike performance is where the debate lies.

 

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That's a fantastic post.

 

never in a milion years. Marvis frazier and tony tubbs handled smith, bonecrusher was dangerous early against slower starting fighters but he was never fast enough to beat a fast starting Tyson to the draw.

 

douglas' offense i think overshadows his defensive flaws in that fight. he still took rounds off, still got lazy (the uppercut is the best example but he did it throughout the fight) and he didn't keep his hands up enough.

his movement, at times, was great, his punches were fluid and he showed great determination/heart which cloud the fact he was still buster douglas and hadn't remedied all his flaws

 

Mike in Tokyo was nothing like as bad as Buster was against Holyfeild. Tyson lost focus when he could not make an impression on buster but he showed up with his usual focus and shape until Buster got the upper hand.
Douglas did not allow Tyson to get into the fight. Tyson lost a bit of focus in the Thomas and smith fights, there were frustrated moments a plenty but neither man had the drive, tools or talent to cash in like douglas did.
Tyson was a young kid but a young kid with super talent, his interest would always wane when he was not having success. So long as Tyson made an impression with a fast start the job was half done and nobody need question the lack of focus if he ended up winning.

 

i have to respectfully disagree that he showed up with the usual focus and shape. he lost his focus by round one and with it head movement and anything resembling a combination. it was a steady dip in quality in the fights before douglas but this was a MASSIVE drop. his stamina was also horrible and nothing like what he showed in the tucker fight imo

 

Maths derp

 

good post luf:good