Did mike ever fight someone who could jab or move as good as douglas?

Do you mean overrating the Tyson from this fight?

 

He wasn't better than Tucker - the fight was even at the time of the stoppage.

 

A couple of things to look at:

1. The Corner: without a proper enswell Tyson's eye shut a few rounds sooner than it should have limiting his visibility resulting in him taking more punishment than he would have taken if he had better vision. And the advice of "punch Mike, punch!" showed that his corner did absolutely nothing to help him adjust.

2. In the actual fight:

A. Tyson's punch stat was low. If you watch the actual fight (not from memory) but watch a clip of the first few rounds on youtube as a refresher; you will notice that Tyson is waiting on Douglas; almost patiently on the outside nonetheless. In just about every stanza, Buster Douglas was initiating and getting off first.

B. Mike was not jabbing his way in; and this wasn't something that Buster was preventing him from doing, it was something he neglected entirely on his own. He was also walking into combinations.

3. When I look at the Tucker fight; there are two things I notice in terms of the dynamic of how both fighters were:

A. Both Tucker and Douglas were moving well from the outset. To be fair Buster looked a little more comfortable in his skin than Tony did but that is only because the Tyson he faced was far more deliberate and energetic than the one that showed up in Tokyo.

B. In the second round; both Tucker and Douglas looked far more comfortable than they had been in the first. Tucker started to fight with more desire and purpose (at that point in the fight) and wasn't afraid to let his hands go. Douglas was also gaining confidence and fought with far more tenacity than he did in the first round.

The difference here is subtle but clear; Tyson gave Tucker less space to work with because he was cutting off the ring and at the same time initiating with the jab frequently. With less space to work with, Tucker didn't feel as comfortable taking the same kind of risks that Buster took but he didn't shy away from trying to land his own combinations when an opportunity presented itself. Look at round 3 the middle part of the round (as in 2:00 min mark to the 1:00 min mark).

Against Douglas; Tyson gave Buster more than enough room to work with. He would frequently wait on the outside for the first few rounds where Buster would keep him at the end of a long jab and right hand lead and instead of trying to cut off the ring and crowd Buster he'd follow Douglas around.

Tyson didn't get serious until the later rounds when he suddenly woke up and realized that his titles may soon go home with another man. And despite "conventional wisdom" about Mike Tyson tapering off after a few rounds; Tyson's level of activity went up in the 8th round as he threw more punches in the 8th than he was averaging during the first 6 rounds.

Tyson has always fought in a pattern; Cus D'amato taught Patterson, Torres and Tyson different combinations and movements using a numbered system. The numbers, for those who don't know, represent a different part of the body. It was almost as though Mike was being programmed with an algorithm which he implemented on nightly basis. Yes he'll get sloppy at times, yes he'll also get wild at times but with a proper corner it could be contained.

In Tokyo, Tyson was more like a drunk musician who forget the lyrics to his own song while doing a poor rendition of himself. Janitor was right, Buster was supposed to be Mike's Billy Conn, not his conquerer. And while Buster fought valiantly against an undefeated, undisputed Mike Tyson who was in his prime, taken in proper context, Mike Tyson as we knew him just didn't show up.

IMO Tucker, Tubbs and possibly Thomas would have beaten him that night.

 

I'm not sure i scored it at all - just don't remember Douglas being significantly better and official scorecards pretty much indicated it.

 

Tucker - he could beat Tyson on points.

Thomas - i'd say 50/50.

Tubbs - probably wasn't durable enough to beat Mike.

 

those guys were different than Tyson. Tyson without defense means he will either stop the guys (which he could since he had power and speed) or they would eventually hang in there and maybe stop him. Tubbs was a speedster with no power and so was Marvis. They wouldn't have tried to stop Bonecrusher and leave themselves open to the counters like Mike would have. Mike didn't have a good reverse gear, and that was his problem when his defense started to slip. It was always offense. I remember that Marvis Frazier fight. I was surprised Frazier won that decision. That was on regular TV on a Sat. afternoon sometime in 1986.

 

Tyson loses out for longevity I guess, and in the mental aspect in terms of attributes. Still a 6-10 HW IMO, and in terms of ability on his best day one of the best fighters I've ever seen regardless of weight class.

 

Marvis Frazier was a good boxer. Dunno' what he was up to against Larry, and pretty small and not too durable, but a good fighter IMO, unfairly maligned.

 

fast guys seemed to neutralize any Marvis could do. Holmes just nailed him over and over with the right.

 

I agree. Mike was top 10 Heavyweight. His dominance against guys who were normally durable and how he cleaned out the division of guys like Bonecrusher and Tubbs and Thomas was refreshing.

 

I meant in terms of his output. Was trying to imitate his old man. Larry him like a book with the first right and then Did a Bryant Brannon on him ;-)

 

Just watched the fight today and I have to say that while Tyson was not 100%, Douglas fought the fight of his life and did everything right technically to nullify and punish Tyson. He should be given great credit for living up to his potential, if only for a one-night coronation as the undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World.