Did Mike Tyson in his prime only beat bums and over the hill fighters?

Deja Vu - Berbick wasn't past it. He'd just had the biggest win of his career and the year before took one more round than Holmes to stop David Bey. One could say he was on the best run of his career.

Tyson would have stopped any version of Berbick, and fast.

 

This is the effect of Teddy Atlas's personal grudge and theories being beaten to death. Tyson beat all the belt holders and even the lineal.champ. He also electrified the entire sports world by doing it.
Defends those belts 9 times

Anybody could have done that. Atlas never turned lpro
.

 

No, Tyson beat the best competition available at that moment.

 

Here's how I see it....the contextual categories re. Tyson's opponents were *tailor made opponent,
* recently lost, * drug use, * enticed out of retirement. Was going to make a category for the cruisers he feasted on but that can be go within 'tailor made opponent', as can those w/out chins, defense etc.

1985
March 6 - Hector Mercedes, Albany, New York, TKO 1 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
April 10 - Trent Singleton, Albany, TKO 1 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
May 23 - Don Halpern, Albany, KO 4 - tailor made opponent / recently lost /
June 20 - Rick Spain, Atlantic City, New Jersey, KO 1 - tailor made opponent / opponent's debut
July 11 - John Alderson, Atlantic City, TKO 2 - tailor made opponent + experience disparity
July 19 - Larry Sims, Poughkeepsie, New York, KO 3 - tailor made opponent + opponent on 12 fight losing streak, Tyson still almost lost!
Aug. 15 - Lorenzo Canady, Atlantic City, TKO 1 - tailor made opponent + disparity in experience
Sept. 5 - Michael Johnson, Atlantic City, KO 1 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
Oct. 9 - Donnie Long, Atlantic City, KO 1 - tailor made opponent / in & out of prison prior to Tyson fight
Oct. 25 - Robert Colay, Atlantic City, KO 1 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
Nov. 1 - Sterling Benjamin, Latham, TKO 1 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
Nov. 13 - Eddie Richardson, Houston, KO 1 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
Nov. 22 - Conroy Nelson, Latham, KO 2 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
Dec. 6 - Sammy Scaff, New York, KO 1 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
Dec. 27 - Mark Young, Latham, KO 1 - tailor made opponent / recently lost


1986
Jan. 10 - Dave Jaco, Albany, TKO 1 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
Jan. 24 - Mike Jamison, Atlantic City, TKO 5 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
Feb. 16 - Jesse Ferguson, Troy, TKO 6 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
March 10 - Steve Zouski, Uniondale, KO 3 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
May 3 - James Tillis, Glen Falls, W 10 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
May 20 - Mitch Green, New York, W 10 - tailor made opponent / drug addict
June 13 - Reggie Gross, New York, TKO 1 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
June 28 - William Hosea, Troy, KO 1 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
July 11 - Lorenzo Boyd, Swan Lake, KO 2 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
July 26 - Marvis Frazier, Glen Falls, KO 1 - tailor made opponent
Aug. 17 - Jose Ribalta, Atlantic City, TKO 10 - tailor made opponent
Sept. 6 - Alfonzo Ratliff, Las Vegas, KO 2 - tailor made opponent / recently lost
Nov. 22 - Trevor Berbick, Las Vegas, TKO 2 - tailor made opponent who happened as a bonus to be champion when match was made / used drugs / mentally ill


1987
March 7 - James Smith, Las Vegas, W 12 - paper strap holder, won title off an admitted fixed fight. Better than most Tyson opponents (no drugs, was in training etc)
May 30 - Pinklon Thomas, Las Vegas, TKO 6 - degenerate drug user
Aug. 1 - Tony Tucker, Las Vegas, W 12 - quality win over healthy, fit, undefeated opponent
Oct. 16 - Tyrell Biggs, Atlantic City, TKO 7 - tailor made opponent / drug use (arguably sacrificed as a result of said drug affliction)


1988
Jan. 22 - Larry Holmes, Atlantic City, TKO 4 - came out of retirement (Team Tyson & network made sure there was no tune-up fight....that's what is called a 'critical factor')
March 21 - Tony Tubbs, Tokyo, TKO 2 - tailor made opponent / drugs
June 27 - Michael Spinks, Atlantic City, KO 1 - came out of retirement / tailor made opponent (proviso being that Spinks fights in a way that suits Tyson, which he did) / possibly may have listened to a 'compromised' person around camp and fought according to those instructions to his detriment


1989
Feb. 25 - Frank Bruno, Las Vegas, TKO 5 - quality win over healthy, fit opponent
July 21 - Carl Williams, Atlantic City, N.J., TKO 1 - tailor made opponent


1990
Feb. 11 - James Douglas, Tokyo, KO by 10 - tailor made opponent (still backfired!)
June 16 - Henry Tillman, Las Vegas, KO 1 - tailor made opponent / drugs
Dec. 8 - Alex Stewart, Atlantic City, KO 1 - tailor made opponent / recently lost


1991
March 18 - Donovan Ruddock, Las Vegas, TKO 7 - tailor made opponent
June 28 - Donovan Ruddock, Las Vegas, W 12 - tailor made opponent / recently lost


I believe context is everything...Tyson's run was not unimpressive, and it was great fun to watch, but this 100-0 rubbish 'if only Rooney and Cus' rubbish is really starting to grate.

I'm also certain that a bunch of the '85 and '86 opponents that Team Tyson selected to be fed to Mike would have also had performance impairing 'issues', whether drinking (quite common back then, less so now), not training or training well, recovering from injuries, drug use etc that may not come up in the fight literature. So, that factor hasn't been listed. Take Donny Long - in and out of prison, probably drugs had a part to play in that etc.

Next up....I'll put up some of the many absolutely scathing contemporaneous quotes from the boxing community re Tyson's opposition illustrating that the above was no secret.

 

But they were not, Tyson made them look bad cause he was just too good.

 

With the exception of Fury, I don't see anyone else beating him. And even with Fury, it's 50:50.

 

Its hard to say, but I think Tyson Fury and Joshua should be firm favorites against Tucker....I guess that makes them 'better'- put it this way, I'd rather be either of those (with their skills set and physical attributes at their best than Tucker at his...and I like Tucker). I'd add the fitter Andy Ruiz we saw in the first Joshua fight too.

Wilder could starch Tucker in theory....as Tucker wasn't a defensive maestro and they're similar heights. I mean Lewis did, and Wilder would test Tucker's chin more than Lewis. Hard to say, Tucker was tough. I could see also Ortiz, Parker and Usyk troubling him too in different ways....lets not forget Tucker struggled with Orlin Norris of all people while he was still a quality fighter. But who can really say with the contenders we have today...its easier to gauge Ticker because we know the whole span of his career, not a two thirds or a half of it like with Usyk, Parkjer, Ruiz etc. I'm sure there'll be much disagreement with this.

 

exactly bums and over the hill fighters , all these folks saying that is what was available thats fine, but that doesnt put him up there with boxers who beat better competition looking good against weak competition doesnt put you up there with guys who looked good against elite competition!

 

Makes me wonder whether his era of challengers was better than Holmes'.

I mean, it wasn't the 70s (far from it), but Tucker, Thomas, Tubbs, Williams, and Bruno were all more than legitimate.

I guess we'd have to compare them to Shavers, Cooney, Snipes, Cobb, Witherspoon, et al. There is of course some overlap, too.

 

Fury, yeah. AJ...not so sure.

I guess I saw Trevor like that because it had been something like 6 years since Holmes.

I'm probably wrong.

So really, only Holmes was over the hill. Pretty darn good for Mike.

 

His title wins and successful defenses were mostly against guys past their peak. But aside from Thomas they weren't damaged goods and none were bums.

But he did a great job cleaning out the division

Tucker was at his peak having just annexed the WBA title over Buster Douglas

Witherspoon was the only one he didn't face but Ihat was only because Tim lost to Bonecrusher who Tyson then beat

Ironically Buster Douglas may have been the most likely regarded of all of them.

Holyfield was really the only other one that deserved a shot and he would have had Mike not lost to Buster.

 

Not only is your argument not valid you spelled swear wrong.

 

good in depth stuff here, I am annoyed at guys who post poetry instead of analysis ,this is an example of analysis!