Did Moorer take a dive vs. Foreman

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MoneyMay1, Feb 14, 2023.

  1. MoneyMay1

    MoneyMay1 Member Full Member

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    Can anyone explain to me how Moorer got knocked out on a simple right hand vs. Foreman? That punch looked like a basic punch that shouldn't have caused so much damage. You can hear Teddy Atlas on the broadcast telling Moorer to look out for the right hand.


    https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-14-2017/CXhN81.gif
     
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  2. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't think it's out of the question, based on watching the fight, and how popular George Foreman was at the time. However, I don't see how Moorer with any amount of money could be convinced to lose that fight. Plus, fighters who take dives usually bounce back from it right away, and Moorer never bounced back.
     
  3. mirexxa

    mirexxa Heavyweight Champ Full Member

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    Foreman is one of all time greatest punchers...and Moorer has one of all time weakest HW chins. Not suspicious at all tbh
     
  4. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    Tbh, it’s not the most self revealing execution and connection - but there’s no way to rationalise a dive otherwise. The true legitimacy of some KO punches don’t always present to the visual satisfaction of the viewer - but they are real, nonetheless.
     
  5. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    It seems Moorer was looking out for the right hand…because he eventually found it and ate it.
    :cheeseburger:
     
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  6. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Ive always felt it was a dive and given how much money Bob Arum was tossing around in order to keep Foreman as champion I think its entirely possible they paid Moorer a boatload of money to lay down.
     
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  7. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    George set him up .... he jabbed and came fast with a straight right, then he jabbed again and but this time looped his right just behind Moore's glove him thinking the straight rt was coming again ...
    Actually, it was a thing of beauty imo ....... clean KO
     
  8. Mike_b

    Mike_b Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I remember Jim Lampley saying "he had enhanced ring intelligence" haha good ol' big George. Plus Power is the last thing that goes, even George was weightraining, chopping wood, pulling jeeps etc. It's like when a glass drops and shatters: I didn't drop it, it's because gravity pulled it down to the ground lol. So if anything Moorer didn't get knocked out he just didn't beat the count in time if that makes any sense whatsoever?
     
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  9. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Are certain people actually serious in this thread ? Moorer had already been hurt from a right hand just prior to KO, and while at first glance the KO punch doesn't look devastating. Actually watch the KO from a different angle on the replay, the punch lands right on the button with devastating effect.
     
  10. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It is suspicious. Foreman got the title shot coming off a loss. He was wildly popular at the time captivating the casual crowd. Look at all the corruption with the sanctioning bodies surrounding George- with his title defenses. And the punch looks like little more than an arm punch.
    On flip side - Moorer had a glass jaw. Cooper had him out twice, Tua slept him quick. His chin was not heavyweight material. So that’s the case making it legit.
     
  11. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    First off, that ‘ordinary’ looking punch put 36 stitches inside Moorer’s mouth.

    Imagine how bad the inside of your mouth has to be busted up to require 36 stitches.

    If a guy is taking a dive, why would he linger around that long (he could have taken George out or cut him or done something that ended up with him winning, thus negating any agreed-upon dive)? And why would he allow himself to be hit so hard that it completely destroyed the inside of his mouth rather than finding a softer landing spot earlier? Makes no sense.

    Furthermore, George broke him down. In his book he talks about his theory that every time you hit a guy with a good jab and snap his head back a bit, it sends a shock down the central nervous system (neck and spine) all the way to the lower parts of the body and weakens the opponent’s legs and punch resistance. More so if you have a telephone-pole jab like George’s.

    How many fights have you seen where the punch that a guy couldn’t land as clean earlier in the right gets through later after breaking the guy down? How many fights have we all seen where the punch that puts a guy down or out later in a fight isn’t all that different from one that landed earlier when he was fresher … or maybe his reflexes were a tiny bit sharper on the earlier one and he took just a bit of sting out of it without it landing quite as flush?

    But also go back and watch the last couple of rounds and you can see George has lulled Moorer to sleep a bit. he tries to land that same right a few times but mostly before that he had been kind of lollypopping it in — like Sean O’Grady used to say on commentary, ‘Get him used to getting hit and THEN bring the power’ … and it’s too late when that bomb drops and he realizes that the lesser rights earlier were the set-up.

    Nah, this is just Big George landing with full power and knocking a guy out.
     
  12. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just for reference go to 1:02 of this video, and see the right hand that lands flush and hurts Moorer just prior to the KO as i said earlier. And then look at KO punch from this angle at 1:07. And you'll see it was a devasting punch right on the button and is certainly no dive, and i think that should end any silly conspiracy theories about a possible "dive"

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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2023
  13. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    End the discussion right here lol. Who the hell stands still to intentionally get hit by a sledgehammer punch from a heavy handed guy like Foreman requiring 30+ stitches? Is this professional boxing or the set of a Jackass film? You'd have to pay me a hell of a lot more than $7 million. Make it $70 million and you've got a deal.
     
  14. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Let’s also look at the economics of getting the heavyweight champion to agree to take a dive in this setting.

    MM made $7M for this fight. Ahead of him is a winnable mandatory against Tony Tucker, which probably pays in the $3-5M range if he beats Foreman. Then maybe a rematch with Holyfield, which would certainly be a PPV-level payday … and soon after that all he has to do is hold onto the title a bit longer and he’s probably making $10M or more to fight a recently-released-from-prison Mike Tyson.

    Instead, he loses to Foreman and he’s fighting Melvin Foster six months later in Sacramento for peanuts.

    So in losing to Foreman, he’s probably giving away $20M in paydays if he wins like just two more fights (he doesn’t have to beat Tyson if he beats Tucker and Holyfield … and if he does beat Tyson he becomes the biggest attraction in the game, the head of the table in boxing, so more millions after that.

    Now how much do you have to pay a 3-1 favorite to drop that title to Foreman? How much did anyone figure to make off Foreman either betting on him or, if you believe Arum to be behind it, promoting him? Foreman didn’t jump into a mega-payday fight after Moorer, really. Does anyone believe that someone would pay Moorer the $20M or more just to lose that fight and that they could make that back AND enough more profit to make it worth their while?

    I can’t see it. It just doesn’t make sense. More importantly, it doesn’t make enough dollars.
     
  15. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Can't get much better commentary than this.
    Keep it up we may need to upgrade you to Secular Pope! :worship2:

    I'll just add that it is easy to see that Foreman turned his hip into the punch-"arm punch" my foot!
    Also Foreman at that age did not move very fast-it was said his punches could be timed with a sundial.
    But the physics equation of mass X velocity does not accurately sum up force in this athletic realm.
    Any more than it does in batting distance, or throwing a ball at maximum speed.

    Bio-mechancal efficiency is very important-& part of this is not only correct form, but natural advantages like having a very thick bone structure so little force is lost in the transfer of kinetic energy.
    A massive fist helps too.

    Combine that with Foreman's "I'm a harmless old man" softer, decoy punches, Moorer not having a great chin at HW, + George weakening him by then, it does not take Foreman's hardest punch to have devastated him.

    Also Moorer was very angry in an interview hearing how Foreman said he was set up.
    He was in denial; but the salient point is that he is just not the good of an actor!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2023
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