Did Muhammad Ali only ever lose a match during the 70`s because of the 3 year lay off?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Jan 23, 2019.


  1. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Ali used fast hooks as Frazier came in constantly in the rematch, that performance is underestimated and he was somewhere near his old speed, much faster than intheir first bout.
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    One you are perfectly entitled to.
     
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  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Eighteen rounds in nearly 4 years ,get real!
     
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  4. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No, it's just Frazier had slid by then.
     
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  5. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The only fight I see him winning is FOTC. But that's not written in gold. The Spinks,Holmes ,and Berbick losses where to father time, and father time is undefeated from the beginning of time until this very second, because at this very second something is losing to father time in the universe.
     
  6. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Ali`s body was more defined in the second match, he had puppy fat around his midrift in the first bout.
     
  7. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Its possible Ali would have won FOTC if not for his layoff. I don't think its a foregone conclusion though. Frazier's style would always be hell for Ali. He would always have to come down off his toes to rest by the midrounds certainly. Frazier brought too much pressure and pace.

    I think that Ali underestimated Joe Frazier. Joe didnt pass the eyetest to Ali. That would of happened layoff or not.
    Joe administered a painful lesson but Ali did learn from that loss and cameback and won with some different tactics. But he paid to learn.
     
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  8. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Prime Frazier vs Gut-shot Williams would probably been a similar result......especially with Frazier going to the body repetitively.
     
  9. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Ali`s skill level in that fight out did anything Frazier ever did in a fight because he was so cerebral in that bout, despite Williams being jaded Ali exploited that better than anyone else could, he looked amazing, didn`t put a foot wrong at all, Frazier would have been tagged even buy a gut shot Williams and Cleveland could bang.
     
  10. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    In 1971 he would be better and in all probability beat Frazier, imo. It's quite clear to the naked eye that he lost speed, agility and stamina to the lay-off. Some like to claim that this was more than compensated by increased strength and power. But he was the same weight as he was for Chuvalo in 1966 but with a softer body, and was six months back after letting the muscles go to waste for 3,5 years so I can't see where that extra strength would have come from. It's also quite contradictory to on the other hand say that the heavier version of Frazier in the second and third fight was declined because a loss of speed. Why on earth would Ali suffer much less from loss of speed (which his whole style evolved around), than Frazier would? Makes no sense at all.

    For the Norton fight age and wear and tear would probably have started to set in on Ali regardless. Some might say it would have set in earlier since the lay-off had a preserving effect on Ali. There is some sense to that, but I'm doubtful that the possible preservation of the lay-off was equal to what he lost during that time, and since I also think that his fight with Frazier in 1971 was much tougher for him because of the lay-off I'm not even sure that he would have had more wear and tear by 1973 without the lay-off. So my guess is that he would have edged Norton, but taking Norton lightly would be a huge mistake with or without a lay-off, so I'm less sure about this one.

    For Spinks, my answer is more or less the same as it is for Norton.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  11. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree that it's an underrated performance. All the holding wasn't very elegant, but his legs probably looked better that night than they did at any other time in the 70's. Nine months later in Zaire he was already quite a bit slower. The humidity and slow canvas had something to do with it, but his bounce wasn't at all the same.
     
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  12. Hookandjab

    Hookandjab Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The big diffetence during the 70s was that Ali wasn’t fighting the likes of timid London, shot Williams, old Foley, or bleeding Cooper any more.
     
  13. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    I like that you mention his weight in the Chuvalo fight, I`m always hesitant to mention the fact that he got heavier but you mentioned definition or vim instead, it was the same with Tyson`s body v Douglas, but Ali did sem a little sluggish v Chuvalo also, so maybe weight was still the main problem and his body looked more defined in the rematch and his hand speed in that one was comparable to the Chuvalo fight at least.
     
  14. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    In the second fight with Cooper he lost a few pounds in weight and his foot speed made him harder to hit with those hooks which would have caught him more in the 70`s than they did in the 60`s.
     
  15. Hookandjab

    Hookandjab Well-Known Member Full Member

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    And he was bigger, stronger and better able to take a punch in the 70s.