Did Pacman lose this fight?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by main man, Feb 29, 2008.


  1. main man

    main man Member Full Member

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    Oct 19, 2007
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPVr3qvvsAg
    I think pac was down at 00:43 then he got up at 00:54, and notice that when he finally got up, the ref only reached the count of 7. this fight happened in the Philippines and refereed by Padilla of the Thrilla in Manila fame
     
  2. reed_man02

    reed_man02 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He would have had the ref been non biased.:deal
     
  3. main man

    main man Member Full Member

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    Oct 19, 2007
    I agree with you. But what bothers me (more) is the fact that the carlos padilla (the ref) was a respected ref and at one time, held the record for most championship fights refereed. I guess even good refs succumb to some "home cooking" once in a while
     
  4. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well the fighter can only go by what the ref is shouting to them. Had Padilla been on 9 im sure Pac would opt to get up sooner.
     
  5. theunderdog

    theunderdog Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    it really was a long count. if he would have gotten up or stayed down without the long count is something we will never know
     
  6. DobyZhee

    DobyZhee Loyal Member

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    Oh well..slow counts happen. Guess Pacman isn't a world class fighter.
     
  7. angelos

    angelos Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Well Hussein used every dirty trick in the book during that fight. Elbows, headbutts, etc, against Pac and the ref didn't call any fouls. Filipinos were very angry at Carlos Padilla in that fight thats why he never got a chance to become a ref again.
     
  8. theunderdog

    theunderdog Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    he saved pac by that long count, or at least gave him extra time to recover. and stopped the bout on cuts. how could filipinos hate on that?
     
  9. reed_man02

    reed_man02 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What was really bizarre is when he deducted a point from hussein because Pac was holding excessively.:rofl

    Dam, pac looked STUNNED after that left hook I think it was. So what if pac should have another loss on his record, it doesnt take away from what he has accomplished before, or since. Who cares if nedal hussein has pac's number.:yep
     
  10. MattMattMatt

    MattMattMatt Guest

    We can't tell from those camera angles, I was under the impression that the ref only starts the count when the other guy gets to a neutral corner, if you look at the foot positioning of the ref when the camera is zoomed in on Pac's face you will see the ref is not facing him to begin with which suggests to me that he was trying to tell Hussein to go to the corner. If this was the case then it is mostly Hussein's fault for not getting there fast enough - I do however agree that the count was a little slow, but from the point where we can no longer assume the ref is concentrating on getting Hussein to a corner (0:47) at which point we can assume is the earliest he is supposed to start counting to the point where Pac is on his feet (0:54) is only 7 seconds so it seems OK to me until I see some better angles.

    On a side note, Pac was turned to jelly by a jab, I have not noticed the usual torrent of 'glass jaw' abuse on this forum focused on him at any point. I personally believe that the so called 'glass jaw' is much less prevalent than people think (one knock down or a bad night do not mean you have no punch resistance), and even if a fighter has this label, I think it is no where near as important as people want to make out.

    For example, it is perfectly possible statistically speaking for a 'glass jawed' fighter to win 95% of his fights against top competition and to lose the 5% by unlucky* knockout. A puncher with good punch resistance might win 95% of his fights (by KO some of which might be considered lucky!) but could lose 5% by UD which could be considered unlucky as he was not able to land the winning punch. To me there is very little difference between the two, they are both exciting in their own ways. If getting knocked down or KO loss was as much a problem as most people make out then we wouldn't have 5 out of the top 10 P4P list who had either been KOed, suffered knockdowns and/or been labelled as a glass jawed. To emphasise the point, these fighters are in the top five (ring ratings) of the world in their respective divisions:
    Wladimir Klitschko
    Oleg Maskaev
    David Haye
    Jean Marc Mormeck
    O'Neil Bell
    Enzo Maccarinelli
    Glen Johnson
    Anthony Mundine
    Kelly Pavlik
    Jermaine Taylor
    Sebastian Sylvester
    Felix Sturm
    Cory Spinks
    Vernon Forrest
    Alex Bunema
    Oscar De La Hoya
    Carlos Quintana
    Miguel Cotto
    Ricky Hatton
    Vivian Harris
    David Diaz
    Jose Santa Cruz
    Julio Diaz
    Amir Khan (#7 but get so much stick I thought I'd include him)
    Manny Pacquiao
    Humberto Soto
    Jorge Solis
    Naoki Matsuda
    Isreal Vasquez
    Rafael Marquez
    Celestino Caballero
    Somsak Sithchatchawal
    Veeraphol Sahaprom
    Silence Mabuza
    Jorge Arce
    Daisuke Naito
    Pongsaklek Wongjongkam
    Edgar Sosa
    Omar Nino
    Daniel Reyes
    Eagle Kyowa

    ...so much for that the glass chin.



    * - I know that boxing is premiditated but I consider luck or lack of it to simply represent the real world manifestation of probabilities of any parcticular outcome - an unexpected knockout by definition is hard to predict as we cannot estimate the probabilities with any consistancy so I think it is fair enough to call it unlucky. Depending on the opponent it would generally not be unexpected to lose to Calzaghe or Floyd by UD so that would not be unlucky in my book.
     
  11. MattMattMatt

    MattMattMatt Guest

    That was longer than I expected, I think I'll put it in a new thread.:oops:
     
  12. LeadLeftHook

    LeadLeftHook Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That was unbelieveable the Ref deducts a point from Hussein when he knock down Pacman, Pacman was badly hurt and blantantly holding for dear life. Seemed liked a WWE referee.

    The fight was in Phillipines so that explains a lot.
     
  13. Boyd

    Boyd Well-Known Member Full Member

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    i think the ref took the point because he though Hussein was hitting while he was trying to break them up.
     
  14. Galaxy

    Galaxy Member Full Member

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    Feb 12, 2006
    i dint have a problem with the count, was the count long?..maybe but that happens in alot of fights when the ref has to tell the other fighter to go to a neutral corner and pac was clearly looking at the ref on when to get up. the problem i had though was with the point deduction on hussien for the elbow he threw while pac was holding on. The elbow was a natural reaction and hussien being the head case dint know how to deal with the situation.
     
  15. bulakenyo

    bulakenyo Am I a boxing fan yet? Full Member

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    I saw that fight on TV, about 7 years ago or so.

    Yes, it was a long count. A regular ref would have counted Pac out.

    But Pac came back strong and cut Hussein's face in the later rounds. He rocked him with haymaker lefts and continuously pressured.

    Nadel Hussein's a really rugged and nasty fighter. I've never seen so many cheap shots in any other Pac fight. (Agapito Sanchez a close second)

    That's why the mid 1990s to early 2000s version of Pac was so exciting, it's like a sudden death match every fight.

    Either you knock him out, or he knocks you out.