Did Patterson Improve Post Title ?

If you thought he was in some way better from say Moore to Ellis, I have no idea where to begin or what to think. He'd have butchered Ellis in the form of the Moore fight, imo.

 

You criticize him getting knocked down by those guys, even though he still went on to win. you could think of plenty of times where fighters were unimpressive in winning efforts. It doesn't diminish his ability as a fighter, In Patterson's case it just shows that he always had a bad chin.

 

His back was really messed up after the Liston defeats if I'm not mistaken. He was declining, but still a good, tough fighter.

 

Maybe improved in confidence but certainly not in ability. I have never seen him look as good on film as against Archie Moore in 1956 and Ingemar Johansson in 1960. Patterson lost some of his speed/reflexes post Liston.

I think Floyd would have knocked out Folley and clearly outpointed Machen had they fought in the late 50s, if Floyd was up for it. Williams would have always been a very dangerous fight for Floyd.

 

Hard to say ,he may just have fought better opposition ,and raised his game.

 

:goodgood post.

williams would have been dangerous but I would bet on floyd, machen, folley and ingo beating him.

 

no way. Johansson would **** his pants against Williams, Floyd would freeze up like a snowman, folley would get knocked out if Williams landed, and machen already proved he couldn't beat williams.

Williams was very dangerous for all of those men. He goes 2-2 against those men in my opinion.

 

williams was a dangerous fellow but I find proving he could beat a prime world class fighter as dificult as saying gerry cooney does.

 

He beat Ernie Terrell. Terrell was world class. I don't give a **** what your world rating says. He was 23-3 in the prime of his life and went on to beat all these top fighters less than a year later. Williams knocked out Terrell.

 

Cooney knocked out a washed up ken Norton who was possibly no better than the untested Terrell at the time that Williams beat him.

The point I’m making is that it is hard to put much stock into any untested fighter against proven, great, world class fighters if the starlet isn’t so proven himself.

would you bank on Cooney beating mike dokes, weaver, page and witherspoon? Yes gerry has a chance but would you bet on it with his pedigree at the point he met Holmes?

 

Ernie Terrell was in his prime when Cleveland Williams beat him, and he was in his prime for the 2nd fight too, which I had Williams winning 6 rounds to 4.

 

so do you pick cooney to beat dokes, page, weaver and witherspoon?

terrell did not find his way untill after the williams fights.

 

not true, Terrell was rated # 5 in the 2nd fight and had already beaten zora folley. this was only 1 year after Williams had beaten him. It was the only time Terrell was knocked out in his career until 1971.