did Ray Leanord 'steal' his fight against Hagler? or did he beat Hagler str8 up, mano a mano

I wouldn't say SRL stole anything....Hagler came into the fight and let SRL dictate the terms and SRL outsmarted him on his own terms, personally I felt Hagler won but I was not a ringside and the strategy of opening up the last 30 seconds and erasing the 2.5 minutes in the minds of judges was a master stroke. IMO the victory was SRL's he dared to beat Hagler and did it fair and square....the way he did it changed boxing everywhere equipment makers even starting making the training timers to give the fighter the 30 second warning option so he could open up and "steal the round" if it was close, trainers trained it and would yell it out during the round.....I always felt he got the idea from the time keepers 10 second warning they give to the referee it is for the ref not the fighters per sey.

Having said all that IMO Hagler lost the fight as much as SRL won it...what I mean is he came into the ring flat and not in the right mindset. Had he came into the ring like he did to fight Hearns he would have stopped SRL however again the genius of SRL was he didn't ruffle Hagler in the ring by not going for kill and having Hager in a survival to hunter killer mode. No matter how you cut it SRL deserved the victory it wasn't a robbery it was a good strategy. SRL was a master at human psychology and showmanship.

 

a boxer cant erase the first 2.5 minutes of a round. the judges were leanard nuthangers or just crooked. a judge must consider 3 minutes of each round. I think leanard did fine in the fight but Hagler beat him

 

Hagler won.

 

Leonard won it on his own merits. I re-scored it last week after many years and had him the winner as i have every other time.

 

He sort of stole it in that he got the advantage in everyway he could have in a way, but he earned it. And that matters. If Hagler comes out righty and gives away the fight, that is not Ray's problem..

 

If your initial thought is correct that you think Hagler SHOULD have won the fight-then no, the main way you should cut it, Hagler deserved the victory.
All that you say about the psychology & strategy may be correct.
Still, if Hagler in a just world won more rounds, but the judges paid greatly disproporionate attention to 1/6th of each round...
Then they were at fault. And Hagler dmorally deserved the win.

Things need not be corrupt, or even such an error that you might fairly call it an unintentional robbery, to say that the result was unfair.
Since what Leonard did was neither against the rules nor unsportsmanlike, no blame accrues to him.

But IF Hagler clearly should have been awarded at least one more round than Sugar-
Then it was a fault in Professional judgement.
And they shoould have been savvy enough to properly consider all the actions equally in each round.

 

You have admit Hagler looked pretty bad in that fight. He was stronger than Ray but his punches were slow compared to Ray and Hagler looked flat. He came out right handed and gave away the first two rounds, and Ray picked up the momentum and got the feeling for the ring and that gave him enough to get an idea of Hagler's handspeed righty, and then he could handle him better lefty. I think had Hagler come out lefty it could have won him the first two rounds or maybe split the first two and given him momentum to stop Ray late.

 

Hagler made a big mistake. He underestimated Ray and thought he was the rusty washed up welterweight coming back for a payday. And Ray counted on that. I remember how he would try not to get Hagler mad in the press conferences and tried to shake his hand once. Ray was one of the biggest phonies around. Great fighter, but big phony and Hagler should have known this and tried to put the pressure on him. I don't think Hagler was capable of another Hearns kind of fight. He was not in shape and sharp enough for that , but he could have come out lefty and put more pressure. In a perfect situation he has a tuneup in late 1986 against someone like Kinchen and stops him late or goes 12, but he would have won and sharpens up. Then he would have stopped Ray. Just doing it that way with a tuneup would have made a difference.

 

PSP, you may well be correct about everything in these two posts.
Still, that does not necessarily add up to the rounds being scored in a fair way.
In an ideal universe, where every second of every round is weighed the proper way, evenly...

Do you believe that Leonard also should have won it?

 

I think he edged it by two rounds . The rounds he fought at the end made a difference, and Hagler not being aware of that is amazing. Hagler was so honest in everyway, he didn't seem to understand things like winning round at the end.

 

And in some of those rounds, Hagler did little (effectively) in those 2 1/2 minutes other than follow Ray around like a puppy dog.

So if a round is very close or even through 2 1/2 minutes, the last 30 seconds can decide it.

 

He won the fight. Not his fault Hagler botched it big time, game plan and mentally more than physically. Ray didn't steal the fight, but I would say Hagler gave it away more than Ray took it

 

Well credit to Ray and not to Hagler for that aspect, then. Hagler should have known better than to fall for the Kid McCoy routine.

 

I fully agree.