Did Robberies Cost Pernell Whitaker a Place in the GOAT Conversation?

first of all, he wasn't robbed in the Ramirez fight

In fact, his performance was so POOR, it cost him the decision

Neither was he robbed in the DLH fight. all he did was back peddle at twice his normal speed

In my book, was never a great fighter

 

The Ramirez first fight was similar to Hagler/VitoI, Whitaker deserved the win but was far too cautious, particularly late on.


Also by 'losing' the first fight with the Mexican, he avoided meeting prime Chavez, for whom he probably was not good enough to beat at the time, and worse, may have taken frightful Taylor like punishment, that may have affected his further development.

 

Liston, I saw this bout live back in the day and, although I didn't score it, the fight left a bad taste in my mouth. Not because of the decision, but how Whitaker fought. Fast forward some 30 years on and I saw a post from @PhillyPhan69 who scored the fight 116-112 for Ramirez. Philly and I don't always have the same cards, but I respect his opinion immensely and so I put pen to paper and rewatched it a few months back. This is how I scored it and what I wrote:

Jose Luis Ramirez v Pernell Whitaker I

Round 1: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 2: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 5: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 6: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 7: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 8: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 11: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 12: 10-9 Whitaker

Total: 115-115 Draw (actual scores: 118-113 and 116-115 both for Ramirez and a 117-113 for Whitaker for a split win for Ramirez)

The first time I saw this live I didn't put pen to paper but thought half-heartedly, 'Yeah, Whitaker is probably going to get this but he doesn't deserve it.' I was amazed he didn't get the verdict but that was due to all the media hype on Whitaker, not for what went on in the ring. At the time, I just didn't feel like he won and that was down to the way the fight unfolded. Anyways, to clarify after watching this again, Whitaker boxed nicely early but by the time the middle of the fight came along he was quite literally running (I counted 5 times he actually turned his back and ran). This was not ring generalship. This was running and chasing. Now if he was at least firing while running I could make more of a case for him but Ramirez did far better on the chase than the announcing team gave him credit for. In fact, they gave him credit for nothing. I watched the telecast with Don Chevier (spelling) and Angelo Dundee. And you could not have found two bigger Pernell Whitaker cheerleaders than these two. Never once did I hear 'Good left hook by Ramirez' or 'Great pressure'. Nothing. However, they would acknowledge at the end of a round where they were lauding Whitaker's efforts, 'Ramirez likely took that round'. I was thinking, 'Really? You never said a thing what he did well.' I almost laughed out loud when one of them talked about Whitaker's 'wincing body shots'. Anyways, I felt Whitaker came off his bike somewhat those last two rounds to fight out of the pocket and took those rounds on my card. But I gotta say, zone out on the announcers and watch this for what actually occurs in the ring. I just don't see it as the robbery it is made out to be. One other thing, I never saw Whitaker fight this kind of running fight again, so he definitely learned from this and made him a better fighter.

 

I agree with this i don't really understand people, not thinking Ramirez/Whitaker 1 isn't a robbery either. You can dislike Whitaker which is fine he's not everyone's cup of tea. But be fair Whitaker vs Ramirez 1 wasn't even close. I consider Ramirez vs Whitaker 1 more of a robbery than Chavez vs Whitaker, although both were very bad decisions.

As for the ODLH fight that certainly isn't a robbery, i think people sometimes throw around the word "Robbery" too much in close fights. The ODLH fight was a close debatable fight, where an argument could be made for either men, depending on how you score fights.

And finally as much as i like Whitaker, he also got the benefit of a few close decisions himself. Some people felt he lost to Vasquez, i didn't personally i scored it pretty clearly for Whitaker but some people felt Vasquez won. And then there was the 1st fight against Rivera, which was controversial which i believed i scored a draw.

 

you got to tell me, which rounds Whitaker WON!

He did nothing but back up and many of those jabs he threw out there, didnt reach their mark

I still get disgusted just watching this match

for his poor showing as a challenger, for his non effort, I had to give the fight to Ramirez

 

The Chavez fight was a robbery end of story.
The first Ramirez fight was downright robbery - what rounds did you give Ramirez???

He beat De La Hoya and even DROPPED him.
If aggression alone won Saddam Hussein would rule the world.
Oscar missed so many punches it wasn't funny.

 

Someone should start a "Robbery?" of the Week thread and lead with this fight...

I scored the fight for Whitaker but need to rewatch some time.