did rocky marciano retire because he feared liston?

As If Damato was going to throw Patterson in the ring with Marciano before 1957...He was going to make darn sure he saw DRASTIC signs of Rocky slipping before he threw Floyd in the ring with Marciano. In fact in 1955, Damato turned down a fight with Bob Baker. When Patterson asked Damato "Why can't I fight Baker?" Damato said "When your ready to fight heavyweights, I will tell you. But never against a guy like Baker." I could see Floyd posing some stylistic problems for the aging marciano if a fight came off in 1956 like handspeed and accuracy, but patterson was simply too young and too vulnerable to marcianos punches to survive his sustained attack for 15.


As for the thread...I am a HUGE liston and HUGE marciano fan. The truth of the matter is Sonny Liston was just a unrated raw green prospect with potential by 1955, and was in jail by 1956. I highly doubt Upon Marcianos retirement April of 1956 that rocky HAD EVEN HEARD OF Liston.

 

Can anyone set me up with some links? Now you guys got me curious about what Cus had to say about Floyd fighting Rocky.

 

Actually according to the Chicago Tribune...Rocky wanted Nino Valdez to be his next title defense for the big # 50. However, after valdez lost A dreaful snoozefest to Baker followed by a one sided decision to bob satterfield...Valdez as a potential draw became permanetly buried and the fight never came off in 56.

 

I've seen the footage too, but it is still common knowledge that his back had been giving him problems, and he had many problems with Weil. Just because you have a few good fights left in you doesn't mean you are fine and still in your prime. His hand speed and reaction time had clearly slowed down since his fight with Walcott.

 

So is your case marciano ducked patterson? If this is the case, then why did Damato tell friends he had no intentions of throwing Floyd in the ring vs Marciano until he noticed drastic signs of Marciano slipping? Damato's whole plan was to wait until Rocky slipped then sign to fight him sometime in 1957 when he knew rocky had become old and slow enough that Patterson could overwhelm him with his speed and youthness. this It appears to me, that you have it mixed up. Team Patterson was weary of Rocco. Of course I could be wrong. But if your case is Rocky was PERSONALLY afraid of Floyd, I would like some solid evidence to back up your theory.


I am sure in regards to Rocky personally, there is no way he would be petrified of a Teenage supermiddleweight who barely escaped by the skin of his teeth against the clumsy swarmer hurricane jackson in his first fight up to the heavyweight division.


I think Floyd Patterson is an ATG talent. His combination of Speed/ Technique/Power rates up there amongst the best in history. I would pick Floyd over MOST boxer types in heavyweight history. However...Rocky was simply a horrible matchup for him. As are the other ATG punchers. I think Floyd matches up incredibly with the likes of Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles, Jim Corbett, Jack Johnson, Larry Holmes, Max Schmeling, Jack Sharkey and would beat most of them.

 

i think the back was a convenient excuse, he just didnt want to make Al Weil anymore money. He was very bitter that Weil made so much side money off him

 

Interesting discussion. I think Rocky did see Sonny coming.

 

Right, why the hell would Rocky taint his image and bring controversy by saying he retired because of Weil or his back? Rocky wasn't like that and wouldn't do that. Here's why Rocky retired.

1. He didn't like training the way he used to. It used to be fun it became strenuous and tiresome.

2. He was mad and upset at his manager Al Weil. He knew he got shortchanged in the Cockell fight in particular and wanted to do give that man no more money from his making.

3. He had a back. In fact, he had a bad back his ENTIRE career. What nobody knows is he had it in the early stages of his career. He saw doctors, he missed some months off from fighting. He fought through it a lot. Strangely, it disappeared mysteriously. Eventually his back started hurting again.


Patterson ducked Marciano. Not the other way arounds. Cus was slowly moving Patterson up and timing it after Rocky retired. Rocky probably knew of Cus' ambitions.

Suzie has it right on the nail with Cus and Patterson. Cus said he wasn't going to throw Patterson in the ring with Rocky until he showed serious signs of deterioration.

 

How?

Did he have a crystal ball?

 

Also considering A old fat Rocky Challenged Liston in a street fight in 1962 fully well knowing he would have got his ass annihilated at that stage...I highly doubt a Prime Marciano would be fearful of a Young promising but very raw novice

 

I highly doubt it. Sonny Liston's amateur career was virtually non-existant, and in those days prospects were not showcased all over the place. He had exactly a dozen fights when Rocky retired, and one of them was a loss to an obscurity. I can't think of any way that Marciano would have forseen Liston coming up the pike anytime soon.

 

Street fight? I think you mean the time he was during interviews for his radio show and got in an altercation with Liston. I've heard 2 stories on the matter that are slightly similarly.

Duva says that Rocky overheard Liston in an interview saying he hit harder than Marciano. Rocky got pissed off and challenged Liston to fight him then and there. His handlers came in and got him the hell out of there.

The other story I heard was Rocky was interviewing Liston for his show. Liston asked how does he think he would do against him. Rocky responded modestly at first saying, "Well, I don't know Sonny you're a big guy." But before he could finish Liston said, "I would've murdered you." Rocky then said if he felt that way he should get in the ring with him. Liston handles came in and stopped that.

I believe something happened similar to one of those stories. I learn towards Duva's story as sounding more feasible. I'm not sure Rocky thought he was going to get his ass handled knowing/understanding Rocky's mindset.

 

And Ali retired because he saw the coming of Tyson. Even more unknown is the fact that Ray Leonard took a dive against Norris because he knew that he'd get a really bad and humiliating ass whopping by Roy Jones in a couple of years if he stayed in the game.

 

...Yes....Yes, he did...